Radical "Terrorist" Gang Digs Tunnels And Breaks 770 Wall

[Yehuda57]

Some might be too young to remember that violence and "terrorism" was introduced by Detroit.

They didn't invent anything. The Rebbe's sicha about R' Akiva's talmidim is sadly relegated to being well known but not well practiced.

[ExGingi]

They didn't invent anything. The Rebbe's sicha about R' Akiva's talmidim is sadly relegated to being well known but not well practiced.

Were they violent, or just disrespectful?

[Dan]

While I will agree that the overwhelming majority do sing, I would think that there are more than a handful that don't on every given shabbos.

{{Citation needed}}

Amazing how this minhag was forgotten by even the most chassidish Zals and Anash shuls across the globe, where people protest just about every deviation, but never this one.

[ExGingi]

{{Citation needed}}

Amazing how this minhag was forgotten by even the most chassidish Zals and Anash shuls across the globe, where people protest just about every deviation, but never this one.

Since this occurs on Shabbos there is no video or recording that can be produced to prove. Ask anyone that davened on Yud Shevat, Vov Tishrei, or Chof Menachem-Ov that fell on Shabbos in the Rebbe's minyan.

Ask anyone more than 55 years old. Ask your mashpiim, rabbonim, etc.

How about the minhag to sing niggunim of the Rebbeim before תקיעות? Is that universal?

[Dan]

Since this occurs on Shabbos there is no video or recording that can be produced to prove. Ask anyone that davened on Yud Shevat, Vov Tishrei, or Chof Menachem-Ov that fell on Shabbos in the Rebbe's minyan.

The Rebbe also wore 4 pairs of Tefilin. Does that make it a מנהג ליובאוויטש?
I'd imagine the Rebbe would have spoken about it if he wanted his chassidim to do things another way.

How about the minhag to sing niggunim of the Rebbeim before תקיעות? Is that universal?

No idea, never done that.

[ExGingi]

The Rebbe also wore 4 pairs of Tefilin. Does that make it a מנהג ליובאוויטש?
I'd imagine the Rebbe would have spoken about it if he wanted his chassidim to do things another way.

 

Let's just say that this isn't a hill anyone would die on or anything that principled.

The fact is that up until the mid-5740s at most, it was recited by the crowd and sung by the Chazzan (as is common in many communities) that changed in the mid to late 5740s.

There's nothing about it in היום יום or ספר המנהגים so it's not like this is some kind of מנהג חב"ד. But the fact is that it wasn't customary to sing לכה דודי in the past.

[Ver hut gazugt]

Let's just say that this isn't a hill anyone would die on or anything that principled.

The fact is that up until the mid-5740s at most, it was recited by the crowd and sung by the Chazzan (as is common in many communities) that changed in the mid to late 5740s.

There's nothing about it in היום יום or ספר המנהגים so it's not like this is some kind of מנהג חב"ד. But the fact is that it wasn't customary to sing לכה דודי in the past.

wasn’t that for singing in general as well?

[ExGingi]

This entire מנהג חב"ד regarding singing is a total distraction, which started from my comment about types of violence. I suggest we cut this short here, as it is really not anything important (other than when used to terrorize/force others to act a certain way).

But before I sign off on this diversion, let's just post the following:

These guys paid a lot more attention than me and remember much better than I do.

[Galitzyaner]

{{Citation needed}}

Amazing how this minhag was forgotten by even the most chassidish Zals and Anash shuls across the globe, where people protest just about every deviation, but never this one.

Please don't take offense to the following, I'm not being judgmental, it's just reality. And I say it with lots of love.
IMHO there are certain things/customs that OOT/BT folk don't pick up in their home, and neither in yeshivos.
I assure you this is not unique to Lubavitch, but to all types of groups in Orthodoxy, each in their own way.

This type of thing is one of them IMHO.

I know this may come as a shock to you, but in general Lubavitcher Chassidim were not very much in to singing during davening.
This mostly began to change in the last decade or two before that fateful day.
I'm referring to all the places in davening your familiar with singing, .לכה דודי, האדרת, קל אדון, ממקומך, ועוד

Even this nuance is likely a gradual change (PCMIIW) that has happened in many other communities as well.
My proof to this is that many contemporary youth don't know the nusach (tune) for the aforementioned תפילות\פיוטים. They are shocked to learn that a nusach even exists (by "nusach", I mean the traditional [maybe even Skarbove] tune used universally by all Ashkenaz), and it wasn't always sung. And this applies to many communities in Orthodoxy in general.

Why you wouldn't have necessarily gleaned this information in Yeshivos, I have a some theories why that may be.
A. Much of the time Davening may be run by the buchrim (i.e. as ש"צ) and they are simply ignorant, and the הנהלות tend not to meddle in, especially since there's no reason to.
B. Yeshiva environment usually is one of guys trying to be (or at least put on a show of being) as frum/chassidish/machmir (pick your choice word) as they can possibly be. So it doesn't exactly create a space that is ripe for the students to be even so much as interested in mellow or lame customs of yore.

[Dan]

Please don't take offense to the following, I'm not being judgmental, it's just reality. And I say it with lots of love.
IMHO there are certain things/customs that OOT/BT folk don't pick up in their home, and neither in yeshivos.
I assure you this is not unique to Lubavitch, but to all types of groups in Orthodoxy, each in their own way.

This type of thing is one of them IMHO.

I know this may come as a shock to you, but in general Lubavitcher Chassidim were not very much in to singing during davening.
This mostly began to change in the last decade or two before that fateful day.
I'm referring to all the places in davening your familiar with singing, .לכה דודי, האדרת, קל אדון, ממקומך, ועוד

Even this nuance is likely a gradual change (PCMIIW) that has happened in many other communities as well.
My proof to this is that many contemporary youth don't know the nusach (tune) for the aforementioned תפילות\פיוטים. They are shocked to learn that a nusach even exists (by "nusach", I mean the traditional [maybe even Skarbove] tune used universally by all Ashkenaz), and it wasn't always sung. And this applies to many communities in Orthodoxy in general.

Why you wouldn't have necessarily gleaned this information in Yeshivos, I have a some theories why that may be.
A. Much of the time Davening may be run by the buchrim (i.e. as ש"צ) and they are simply ignorant, and the הנהלות tend not to meddle in, especially since there's no reason to.
B. Yeshiva environment usually is one of guys trying to be (or at least put on a show of being) as frum/chassidish/machmir (pick your choice word) as they can possibly be. So it doesn't exactly create a space that is ripe for the students to be even so much as interested in mellow or lame customs of yore.

That's all fine, now answer the question.

How many Chabad minyanim in 2024 don't sing a song for L"D?

@imayid2 was surprised that any of them do, when in fact, the opposite is true today. Not sure how we've gotten into the weeds here.

[Galitzyaner]

That's all fine, now answer the question.

How many Chabad minyanim in 2024 don't sing a song for L"D?

Unfortunately well under 5%.
You'd probably only find it in well established communities of אנ"ש (which are large enough to still have some folk of certain types), e.g. CH, KC, Jlem.
Extremely unlikely in OOT/BT/Chabad House communities.

[chbochur]

Re lecha dodi

IMHO (although I cannot substantiate it), is that is similar to keil adon where the ideal way of reciting this part of davening is that the chazan says the first sentence followed by the tzibbur which then says the first and second followed by the chazan saying the second. Then the tzibbur says the third followed by the chazan etc.

Eventually this was getting too complicated (perhaps it was too hard to hear the chazan etc.) and slowly people started just singing the whole thing together.

See hiskashrus 212 for a possible difference of opinion.

[ExGingi]

That's all fine, now answer the question.

How many Chabad minyanim in 2024 don't sing a song for L"D?

@imayid2 was surprised that any of them do, when in fact, the opposite is true today. Not sure how we've gotten into the weeds here.

Does that make it מנהג חב"ד? How about wearing a gartel over a shirt (no jacket) for davening? Is that מנהג חב"ד?

[imayid2]

פרדס חב״ד

[Galitzyaner]

Re lecha dodi

IMHO (although I cannot substantiate it), is that is similar to keil adon where the ideal way of reciting this part of davening is that the chazan says the first sentence followed by the tzibbur which then says the first and second followed by the chazan saying the second. Then the tzibbur says the third followed by the chazan etc.

Eventually this was getting too complicated (perhaps it was too hard to hear the chazan etc.) and slowly people started just singing the whole thing together.

See hiskashrus 212 for a possible difference of opinion.

Of course that was undoubtedly the original form in which it was chanted (to my limited knowledge).

Again, this has nothing specifically to do with Chabad, or even Chassidim in general. This is relevant to all of Ashkenaz Jewry.

[chbochur]

Of course that was undoubtedly the original form in which it was chanted (to my limited knowledge).

Again, this has nothing specifically to do with Chabad, or even Chassidim in general. This is relevant to all of Ashkenaz Jewry.

Seemingly that's why the rebbe crossed it out this minhag on a list of minhagei chabad as pointed out in the hiskashrus I mentioned.

But on a more humorous note
According to this the minhag and 'most' chabad shuls they sing from lo seivoshi in the tune of yechi
https://chabadpedia.co.il/index.php?title=%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%92%D7%95%D7%9F_%D7%99%D7%97%D7%99_(%D7%97%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%99_%D7%90%D7%93%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%A0%D7%95)&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop

[aygart]

Of course that was undoubtedly the original form in which it was chanted (to my limited knowledge).

Again, this has nothing specifically to do with Chabad, or even Chassidim in general. This is relevant to all of Ashkenaz Jewry.

Most yeshivishe shuls have the tzibbur saying both lecha dodi and keil adon separate from the chazan. Many do not sing keil adon at all and some not lecha dodi. Even the ones that do are clearly doing so as a new thing brought over from more chassidishe places.

[aygart]

פרדס חב״ד

Tunes not matching the words is an old pet peeve of mine.

[Yehuda57]

Singing during davenning besides Lecha Dodi changed over the years, perhaps most notably with R' Zalman Jaffe complaining to the Rebbe about the lack of singing, and the Rebbe encouraging him to add song. So yes, Chabad generally didn't sing, but that's something the Rebbe clearly wanted to change.

[ExGingi]

Tunes not matching the words is an old pet peeve of mine.

And it's worst when it is actually possible to sing the words with a specific tune, while maintaining the proper emphasis and breaks to imply the correct meaning, but the crowd just does their own thing regardless of meaning.

In 770 Chazzan Berkowitz used to be my favorite, as it was clear from how he would sing parts of Davening that he paid attention to פירוש המילות.