Author Topic: TIL - Today I Learned  (Read 56506 times)

Offline imayid2

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #200 on: December 27, 2024, 02:45:18 PM »
You seem very quick here and other places to brush things off a baloney based on some articles that you only heard about that day. I strongly recommend against being so rash.
Yep, if you don’t like the message, shoot the messenger. I strongly recommend you try focus on the specific conversation we are having and attempt a substantive contribution.

Offline imayid2

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #201 on: December 27, 2024, 02:46:37 PM »
So you agree that the story was told before the first time it was published. Why are you so certain that this oral tradition does not go back to the time of Chanukah?
I did not agree, it’s possible, its besides the point.

I explained why. And a sweeping generalization about chokrim is irrelevant.

There are a lot of oral traditions about a lot of things. We can’t 100 percent definitively disprove this one without reviewing the footage from all the caves,  but we have absolutely no reason to think it’s truer than Aladdin.

For some, it’s crisis mode if they find out that a story their morah told them isn’t based on anything real. Others aren’t as threatened.

Offline imayid2

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #202 on: December 27, 2024, 02:48:08 PM »
It does seem that it is also found among sfardim but I don't have it confirmed that it came from Halab yet
Sefardi friend:

“We have it, but not anymore than you. Just because that’s what they’re selling in the stores”.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #203 on: December 27, 2024, 03:11:41 PM »
I’m not following.

He presented a theological argument based on the fact that sincere Jews do this so there needs to be deep meaning to it because clearly Hashem “willed it”. I explained why in general I don’t think that is very compelling.

I have not said anything about this specific minhag in this conversation, besides commenting on the origin story recently attached to it. Not sure why you keep reverting there.

I supported the argument he made and discounted your tzu shtel of כאלה, that's all. On the story behind I can pretty much assume the same that it's likely just a legend.


Online aygart

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #204 on: December 27, 2024, 03:12:56 PM »
Yep, if you don’t like the message, shoot the messenger. I strongly recommend you try focus on the specific conversation we are having and attempt a substantive contribution.
That was a very specific comment about this exact conversation. The relevance to the others is only that it's a trend
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline imayid2

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #205 on: December 27, 2024, 03:48:31 PM »
That was a very specific comment about this exact conversation. The relevance to the others is only that it's a trend
Instead of inane recommendations and accusations of rashness, consider attempting to demonstrate how it is inaccurate. This will be a great lesson about jumping to conclusions.

Keep us posted.

Offline imayid2

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #206 on: December 27, 2024, 03:51:08 PM »
I supported the argument he made and discounted your tzu shtel of כאלה, that's all. On the story behind I can pretty much assume the same that it's likely just a legend.
Looked back and see he referred to a “well established minhag” in which case I agree that my tzu shtel is off mark.

Online aygart

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #207 on: December 28, 2024, 08:02:41 PM »
Instead of inane recommendations and accusations of rashness, consider attempting to demonstrate how it is inaccurate. This will be a great lesson about jumping to conclusions.

Keep us posted.
I have no conclusion here to have possibly jumped to a conclusion but I have no interest in a back and forth over this.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ckmk47

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #208 on: December 29, 2024, 01:57:56 AM »

I've stopped reading most of this discussion, because I believe draidel isn't a new mishegas.

We were taught that talmidim in yeshiva hid their sefarim and played draidel when the Greeks were coming.
Most of my adult life I've interpreted that to mean:
This was adults learning in yeshiva - bais medrash and kolel - not little kids in cheder.
They took out draidels to look like they were gambling - think playing with dice (craps) - when the Greeks were coming. 
They didn't have big gemaras - they were leaning chumash.  This was before Torah shebaal pe was written down. Did they even have a chumash each - this was before printing - each sefer had to be hand copied.
They learned in hidden areas so they were less likely to be found and more believably gambling. 

My favorite cause: cssy.org

Offline EliJelly

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #209 on: December 29, 2024, 02:44:09 AM »
I've stopped reading most of this discussion, because I believe draidel isn't a new mishegas.

We were taught that talmidim in yeshiva hid their sefarim and played draidel when the Greeks were coming.
Most of my adult life I've interpreted that to mean:
This was adults learning in yeshiva - bais medrash and kolel - not little kids in cheder.
They took out draidels to look like they were gambling - think playing with dice (craps) - when the Greeks were coming. 
They didn't have big gemaras - they were leaning chumash.  This was before Torah shebaal pe was written down. Did they even have a chumash each - this was before printing - each sefer had to be hand copied.
They learned in hidden areas so they were less likely to be found and more believably gambling.

It's definitely not new and not a mishegaas regardless of whether the story with play n hide from the Greeks is true or not.

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #210 on: January 12, 2025, 12:21:14 PM »
TIL that the Mirs pursuit of the Curaçao/Japan visa option was done against the accepted concensus of the rabbanim/gedolim of the time. Rav chatzkel, in Shanghai, after the murder of all those that they left behind became known to them STILL was not certain that they had done the right thing.

Sugihara (and others involved) shouldn't have been eligible for the chassidie umos haolam award from yad vashem, as the award is for assisting jews under nazi occupation, not soviet.

(Binging yehuda geberers Jewish history soundbite series... bunch of other prospective TIL for people there busting myths about the escape (most of I either knew or sort of surmised already)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2025, 12:29:33 PM by yfr bachur »

Offline notyettaken

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #211 on: January 12, 2025, 12:37:29 PM »
did the Natzis ultimately conquer where they were?
thank you for your attention to this matter

Offline imayid2

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #212 on: January 12, 2025, 01:35:07 PM »
TIL that the Mirs pursuit of the Curaçao/Japan visa option was done against the accepted concensus of the rabbanim/gedolim of the time. Rav chatzkel, in Shanghai, after the murder of all those that they left behind became known to them STILL was not certain that they had done the right thing.

Sugihara (and others involved) shouldn't have been eligible for the chassidie umos haolam award from yad vashem, as the award is for assisting jews under nazi occupation, not soviet.

(Binging yehuda geberers Jewish history soundbite series... bunch of other prospective TIL for people there busting myths about the escape (most of I either knew or sort of surmised already)
Great article on it here:
treatise on the Mir:
https://www.academia.edu/82178661/_The_Mir_Yeshiva_and_Its_Shanghai_Sojourn_In_Kathryn_Hellerstein_and_Lihong_Song_eds_China_and_Ashkenazic_Jewry_Transcultural_Encounters_Berlin_Boston_2022_pp_195_215

Offline zh cohen

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #213 on: January 12, 2025, 02:05:57 PM »
did the Natzis ultimately conquer where they were?

Yes, as evidence by
the murder of all those that they left behind

Offline notyettaken

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #214 on: January 12, 2025, 02:17:15 PM »
did the Natzis ultimately conquer where they were?

Yes, as evidence by

the murder of all those that they left behind

so then why


Sugihara (and others involved) shouldn't have been eligible for the chassidie umos haolam award from yad vashem, as the award is for assisting jews under nazi occupation, not soviet.

thank you for your attention to this matter

Offline zh cohen

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #215 on: January 12, 2025, 02:28:51 PM »
so then why

Because the podcast has to be interesting and controversial?

Offline imayid2

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #216 on: January 12, 2025, 05:33:29 PM »
so then why
Sounds like the assistance needed to have been rendered while actively under Nazi control to receive the reward.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #217 on: January 12, 2025, 06:54:12 PM »
Sounds like the assistance needed to have been rendered while actively under Nazi control to receive the reward.

I was not able to find a formal list of the criteria , but I don't think this is true.

I looked, and didn't see any mention of this condition on Yad V'Shem's website. See here for example - https://www.yadvashem.org/righteous/faq.html

Offline th0306

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #218 on: January 13, 2025, 10:37:20 AM »




Why do Lubavitcher Bachurim not wear a Gartel?

Offline Dan

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Re: TIL - Today I Learned
« Reply #219 on: January 13, 2025, 10:44:52 AM »
Why do Lubavitcher Bachurim not wear a Gartel?
Or a kapota or a talis?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.