Eurovision: Eden Golan's October Rain/Hurricane In Malmo

[DaasTora]

I'm sure the כחי ועוצם ידי people are rolling over in their graves at a song representing Israel that says לא צריך מילים גדולות, רק תפילות.

When Chayalim are all lining up for Moshiach patches, Chitas seforim and microfilms, and Tefillin, you know that just maybe, the Chabad approach isn't a bad one. We can cut off 95% of world Jewry and be ah tzaddik in peltz, or we can work to bring them back.

Well said! We still don’t have to praise them on an orthodox website though……

[jye]

You and others seem to be intentionally misconstruing what I wrote. I wrote what I wrote at the beginning and the end of the post with intention.
Your lip service for ahavas yisroel is just that and won't have its intended effect.

Ahavas Yisroel takes many forms and a version different than yours isn’t necessarily lip service. Sometimes Ahavas Yisroel means Just Love Them. Sometimes it means coming down hard on students who violated a rule they signed they would abide by. (IYKYK) It doesn’t always take the form of dancing to Am Yisroel Chai, as compelling as those visuals are. Applauding an act that essentially attacks the fabric of the הבדלה בין ישראל לעמים is not an appropriate manifestation of Ahavas Yisroel any more that the Baal/Asheira priest in my example above, as well intentioned and innocently misguided the T”S  was.

[Me and you]

One who thinks that he’s Jewish because he dose mitzvah and learns Torah, never really understood what doing a mitzvah is, or what Judaism is
Sad

[Dan]

Well said! We still don’t have to praise them on an orthodox website though……

Ahavas Yisroel takes many forms and a version different than yours isn’t necessarily lip service. Sometimes Ahavas Yisroel means Just Love Them. Sometimes it means coming down hard on students who violated a rule they signed they would abide by. (IYKYK) It doesn’t always take the form of dancing to Am Yisroel Chai, as compelling as those visuals are. Applauding an act that essentially attacks the fabric of the הבדלה בין ישראל לעמים is not an appropriate manifestation of Ahavas Yisroel any more that the Baal/Asheira priest in my example above, as well intentioned and innocently misguided the T”S  was.

You and others seem to be intentionally misconstruing what I wrote. I wrote what I wrote at the beginning and the end of the post with intention.

[EliJelly]

Lets try this. Lets say Meir Kay is standing in Times Square thinking he's the quintessential Lubavitcher spreading light and love to the world, giving free hugs to random passerby, men and women alike. Then, a pro Palestinian mob shows up and tries to intimidate him, but he perseveres, he holds on to his chabad flag and pin despite the attempts to tear it off, and still manages to hug woman after woman, man after man, not bowing to the mob's attempts to stop the chabad outreach mission he undertook. Would you praise him as being a proud Lubavitcher? Does that make any sense?

[Dan]

Lets try this. Lets say Meir Kay is standing in Times Square thinking he's the quintessential Lubavitcher spreading light and love to the world, giving free hugs to random passerby, men and women alike. Then, a pro Palestinian mob shows up and tries to intimidate him, but he perseveres, he holds on to his chabad flag and pin despite the attempts to tear it off, and still manages to hug woman after woman, man after man, not bowing to the mob's attempts to stop the chabad outreach mission he undertook. Would you praise him as being a proud Lubavitcher? Does that make any sense?

What kind of idiocy is this to compare an FFB to a T"S?!?

[EliJelly]

What kind of idiocy is this to compare an FFB to a T"S?!?

Replace him with a baal tshuva who doesn't know much better and is still newish to chabad

[Dan]

Replace him with a baal tshuva who doesn't know much better and is still newish to chabad

https://www.chabad.org/library/tanya/tanya_cdo/aid/7911/jewish/Chapter-32.htm

[EliJelly]

https://www.chabad.org/library/tanya/tanya_cdo/aid/7911/jewish/Chapter-32.htm

You're just dodging the question. We've been through this, okay. I don't hate her, I understand she's a T"S and doesn't know better. This is about praising publicly her performance as standing as a proud Jew. Would you praise similarly in my above example as being a proud Lubavitcher?

[Dan]

You're just dodging the question. We've been through this, okay. I don't hate her, I understand she's a T"S and doesn't know better. This is about praising publicly her performance as standing as a proud Jew. Would you praise similarly in my above example as being a proud Lubavitcher?

Good grief. You continue to twist my words.

[EliJelly]

Good grief. You continue to twist my words.

I'm not twisting anything, besides for pointing to Tanya 32 you didn't even say anything.
My point is that it's irrelevant what a misguided premise some T"S have set to themselves, if the action involved is contrary to every aspect of Jewishness, how can we, who do know what authentic Jewish values and pride is about, praise publicly such misguided activity as being proud Judaism. Hence my given example.     

[Dan]

I'm not twisting anything, besides for pointing to Tanya 32 you didn't even say anything.

I specifically opened by saying that I don't condone her behavior for several reasons, including Shabbos.

I concluded by saying she stood as a proud Jew and referenced what Begin told Biden. That's not me passing judgement or praise, that's just literally the definition of how she stood on that stage in the face of death threats. I didn't say she's a role model for observant Jews.

Now additionally, for a T"S, what she did was just about the most you can hope for until they are brought into the fold of Torah uMitzvos. She even has Tefila in her lyrics, halevai that all Jews now daven because of her. But you don't even need to get into that for what I said.

[yuneeq]

For many, Jewish pride means much more than just Israeli patriotism. It means belief in God and appreciation of Jewish tradition. It also means yelling Shema Yisrael when in danger. I believe Eden falls into that boat and deserves credit for it.

[ExGingi]

I'm not twisting anything, besides for pointing to Tanya 32 you didn't even say anything.
My point is that it's irrelevant what a misguided premise some T"S have set to themselves, if the action involved is contrary to every aspect of Jewishness, how can we, who do know what authentic Jewish values and pride is about, praise publicly such misguided activity as being proud Judaism. Hence my given example.   

In other words ס׳ווענדט זיך וואו מ׳רעדט (has to be said in a specific voice/tone/lisp to be appreciated IYKYK).

From HER point of view, and where SHE stands, it probably is Jewish pride (and WE can appreciate that). From OUR point of view, and where we stand, while we can appreciate her נסיונות, her pride and all in the context of תינוק שנשבה, we know that at the same time there are some extremely unacceptable aspects to the entire thing. Which is why it is valid to question whether this is worth mentioning on a website known to be run by observant Jews of a Lubavitch persuasion.

This brings to memory an episode that happened about 33 years ago. Participants in an Israeli beauty pageant were touring NY, and someone decided to bring them to get a dollar and a brocho from the Rebbe. When they came in front of the Rebbe and were presented as participants in the Israeli beauty Queen pageant, the Rebbe gave them dollars and told them שקר החן והבל היופי.

I wrote the above from memory, and then decided to search for it. This is what I found (notice how she says that she is representing Israel etc, which the Rebbe ignores, and uses the opportunity to educate her about what true Jewish beauty is):

You can also watch an interview with her (tznius warning): https://youtu.be/tygPHwr7qrE

After the above visit, there was a small write up in a major Israeli newspaper about the visit (IINM with a photo) printed in the back page of the front section. I recall a certain Israeli askan who felt that he needed to be the face of Lubavitch in EY, calling up in distress when that piece appeared. He was afraid to show his face in public. But if one actually pays attention to what occurred, the Rebbe ignored the "represention", the Rebbe didn't condone the pageant, he just wished her happiness and success and then told her about שקר היופי and אשה יראת ה היא תתהלל, and told her that יראת השם is the true beauty as it projects in תומ"צ.

[Dan]

In other words ס׳ווענדט זיך וואו מ׳רעדט (has to be said in a specific voice/tone/lisp to be appreciated IYKYK).

From HER point of view, and where SHE stands, it probably is Jewish pride (and WE can appreciate that). From OUR point of view, and where we stand, while we can appreciate her נסיונות, her pride and all in the context of תינוק שנשבה, we know that at the same time there are some extremely unacceptable aspects to the entire thing. Which is why it is valid to question whether this is worth mentioning on a website known to be run by observant Jews of a Lubavitch persuasion.

Yes, this is all obvious from how I wrote it.

I didn't write the article to praise her, it was the shocking voting discrepancies and the admission by a jurist that it was fixed that made it worth posting, but the background was needed by then.

If there's a numbers gave I can dive into for discrepancies, whether it's an award chart, this, or an election I'm watching like this, I'll probably write about it if other sites aren't:: https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/breakdown-clevelands-jewish-community-denied-favored-squad-member-seat-congress/

[CountValentine]

For every non-religious Jew putting their life on the line every day to defeat the terrorist Hamas can they be proud Jews?
Should we thank them for their service to their country and be proud of them? 
@EliJelly

[aygart]

For every non-religious Jew putting their life on the line every day to defeat the terrorist Hamas can they be proud Jews?
Should we thank them for their service to their country and be proud of them? 
@EliJelly

Yes and yes

[aygart]

I'm sure the כחי ועוצם ידי people are rolling over in their graves at a song representing Israel that says לא צריך מילים גדולות, רק תפילות. Same goes for Bibi publishing a picture of himself, davening in Moshiko's tefilin today.

When Chayalim are all lining up asking us for Moshiach patches, Chitas seforim and microfilms, and Tefillin, you know that just maybe, the Chabad approach isn't a bad one. We can cut off 95% of world Jewry and be ah tzaddik in peltz, or we can work to bring them back.

All of these things are amazing but don't change the statement Begin was trying to make.

[CountValentine]

Yes and yes

Thank you for the straightforward simple answer. Now I am hoping @EliJelly can do the same.

[jye]

Yes, this is all obvious from how I wrote it.

I didn't write the article to praise her, it was the shocking voting discrepancies and the admission by a jurist that it was fixed that made it worth posting, but the background was needed by then.

If there's a numbers gave I can dive into for discrepancies, whether it's an award chart, this, or an election I'm watching like this, I'll probably write about it if other sites aren't:: https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/breakdown-clevelands-jewish-community-denied-favored-squad-member-seat-congress/

I think it’s obvious that you have no interest or intention of praising her lifestyle or Eurovision and only intended to focus on the hate aspect and to find the good in the way she stood with Jewish pride. We will have to disagree on a philosophical level on the propriety of giving any focus to what is essentially an extreme platform showcasing LGBTQ values whose Israeli participation is so at odds with what עם ישראל stands for.

This brings to mind the Mashal (perhaps from the Dubna Maggid?) of the girl who lay deathly ill, and the doctors feared for her life. They told her father that her only hope was to consume a portion of the lungs of a pig. The girl categorically refused to do so. The distraught father called in the Rav, who explained to the girl that her life was in danger, and she was required to eat to save her life.

The girl reluctantly agreed on one condition: “If I’m going to have to eat  the lungs of a pig as if it were kosher meat, at least bring in the town shochet to shecht it properly and check the lungs as if it were a kosher cow.” The Rav acceded to her bizarre request, and a shochet was brought in.

He took out his chalif and shechted the pig and then proceeded to blow up the lungs to check for sirchos. After a minute of expectant silence the Rav turned to the shochet and said “nu, speak up!” The shochet turned to the Rav and said, “what do you want me to say, that the lungs are glatt? But it’s a chazer! I decided it’s better to remain silent.”