The Rolls Must Be Hamotzi, But The Milk Can Be Cholov Stam

[imayid2]

where is the letter recently posted from new square hechsher?

Just got the following on a Kashrus whatsapp group. I am sure it will clear up some opinions regarding Pizza for CV. 

[dovy2]

Not so recent.. but whatever

[Unusual]

I take umbrage at the misconception brought up constantly that Reb Moshe was a da'as yochid on milk from companies in the US.
1. Reb Moshe was not mechadesh the heter. It was an accepted psak before he arrived. Rabbonim were meikel, albeit never wrote Teshuvos.
2. Rav Henkin, the Chazon Ish, Reb Aaron Kotler, and Reb Eliezer Silver all held it was muttar. These were basically the greatest Poskim America had at the time. One Krasna Rav, who nullified his opinion with his Hakdama, does not outweigh that.
3. The real question is, who argued on Reb Moshe? Which Poskim wrote Teshuvos against him? Anyone of international caliber like him? Did Reb Yonasan write anything? Did the Minchas Yitzchok? One Chelkas Yaakov makes the da'as yochid the other way.

I know I will be attacked with the thousands of people who are makpid. But none of those are poskim, let alone of international caliber.

But I do think that on airlines, where no other food is available, society should take care of those who would not eat CS.

[AsherO]

I take umbrage at the misconception brought up constantly that Reb Moshe was a da'as yochid on milk from companies in the US.
1. Reb Moshe was not mechadesh the heter. It was an accepted psak before he arrived. Rabbonim were meikel, albeit never wrote Teshuvos.
2. Rav Henkin, the Chazon Ish, Reb Aaron Kotler, and Reb Eliezer Silver all held it was muttar. These were basically the greatest Poskim America had at the time. One Krasna Rav, who nullified his opinion with his Hakdama, does not outweigh that.
3. The real question is, who argued on Reb Moshe? Which Poskim wrote Teshuvos against him? Anyone of international caliber like him? Did Reb Yonasan write anything? Did the Minchas Yitzchok? One Chelkas Yaakov makes the da'as yochid the other way.

I know I will be attacked with the thousands of people who are makpid. But none of those are poskim, let alone of international caliber.

But I do think that on airlines, where no other food is available, society should take care of those who would not eat CS.

Isn't the source for "who argued on Reb Moshe" the Shulchan Aruch itself?

What is your source those poskim held it was muttar absent teshuvos? Did they qualify it?

The fact that people practiced that way means nothing. Many Yidden sadly came to America and worked on Shabbos, that doesn't make it muttar. (not that I'm comparing CS to Shabbos, just asking on your argument)

[Unusual]

The Shulchan Aruch does not mention government supervision.

The poskim were mattir it to people who asked. BMG bought milk from regular companies, when Reb Aaron Kotler was in charge. In fact, the Yekkishe bochurim arranged for Chalav Yisroel from a kibbutz Hachshara in NJ. The first delivery arrived on Shabbos, leading Reb Aaron to comment sharply about those whose chumros caused them to forget basic Halacha. Reb Yankel Schiff is still alive, and he is supposedly the source of this story.

You are distorting the argument. Rabbonim were meikil, not people who worked on Shabbos. It was accepted as a דבר המותר based on Rabbonim who didn't write Teshuvos. Ba'alei Teshuva and Geirim don't know this, because they have no connection to past generations. But Reb Moshe did, and he explained the heter they relied on, in his opinion.

At the time, assering milk from the companies is like those guys who tried to claim that all eggs are ossur, because of the leghorn chicken something something. Reb Moshe refused to countenance these kinds of claims - if doros of ehrliche Yidden do something, it is itself a source lehalacha. (Reb Moshe was very consistent about this Shitta, regarding Techumin on Shabbos, covering ladies' hair with a sheitel that looks like hair, shaving beards with a machine, and what beracha to make on a pretzel)

[aygart]

if doros of ehrliche Yidden do something, it is itself a source lehalacha. (Reb Moshe was very consistent about this Shitta, regarding Techumin on Shabbos, covering ladies' hair with a sheitel that looks like hair, shaving beards with a machine, and what beracha to make on a pretzel)

For each of these cases, please let us know how many doros before Rav Moshe the case that he "went with this shita" was actually happening.
How many doros before were they relying on government inspections?

[Unusual]

I don't know. I don't think I need to. Reb Moshe writes his Teshuva about the minhag, not about a new shaala.

I don't think it is something that can be quantified. It is pretty clear that Yidden cross the Williamsburg bridge on Shabbos, cover their hair with a sheitel that looks like their own, shave with a machine, and say Mezonos on a pretzel. The number of years is not really the point.

[aygart]

I don't think it is something that can be quantified. It is pretty clear that Yidden ..... didn't cover their hair.

FTFY

[Unusual]

Not for me you didn't

I am not in the habit of publicizing bad things about Jews. I just happened to have read that perek in Shemiras Halashon today, where he discusses Yeshaya Hanavi and בתוך עם טמא שפתים etc.

[Just A Jew]

Not for me you didn't

I am not in the habit of publicizing bad things about Jews. I just happened to have read that perek in Shemiras Halashon today, where he discusses Yeshaya Hanavi and בתוך עם טמא שפתים etc.

You don't need to publicize it, but you don't get to rewrite history because of that.

[imayid2]

Reb Eliezer Silver all held it was muttar.

This isn’t accurate from what I recall.

[Unusual]

You don't need to publicize it, but you don't get to rewrite history because of that.

I wasn't talking about those who ignored Halacha. People kept Halacha by covering their hair with this style wig. An ערעור on that is an ערעור on Klal Yisroel. Nothing to do with people who nebach didn't keep Halacha.


If you open a thread about the tumult against sheitlach, I have lots to say about the topic, from the Mekoros.

[imayid2]

I wasn't talking about those who ignored Halacha. People kept Halacha by covering their hair with this style wig. An ערעור on that is an ערעור on Klal Yisroel. Nothing to do with people who nebach didn't keep Halacha.


If you open a thread about the tumult against sheitlach, I have lots to say about the topic, from the Mekoros.

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=135455.new#new

[Chuchum Ainer]

I take umbrage at the misconception

Did you really make an account just to take umbrage at chabadsker misconceptions in threads that have been quiet for months?

[EliJelly]

I take umbrage at the misconception brought up constantly that Reb Moshe was a da'as yochid on milk from companies in the US.
1. Reb Moshe was not mechadesh the heter. It was an accepted psak before he arrived. Rabbonim were meikel, albeit never wrote Teshuvos.
2. Rav Henkin, the Chazon Ish, Reb Aaron Kotler, and Reb Eliezer Silver all held it was muttar. These were basically the greatest Poskim America had at the time. One Krasna Rav, who nullified his opinion with his Hakdama, does not outweigh that.
3. The real question is, who argued on Reb Moshe? Which Poskim wrote Teshuvos against him? Anyone of international caliber like him? Did Reb Yonasan write anything? Did the Minchas Yitzchok? One Chelkas Yaakov makes the da'as yochid the other way.

Oy.
Did Reb Yonoson write? Of course he did! מהר״י שטייף סי׳ לד
Did the Minchas Yitchok write? Of course he did, in multiple thuvos!
In addition to, the Satmar Rov, the Tzehlimer Rov and many others who wrote.

Rav Eliezer Silver too assered, not matir.

[EliJelly]

You are distorting the argument. Rabbonim were meikil, not people who worked on Shabbos. It was accepted as a דבר המותר based on Rabbonim who...

... found the crucial need for it given there was no CY in the States, (Tzehlimer Rov was the first to implement CY in mass scale with the J&J), and how they viewed yiddishkeit in America at the time to be doomed.

[imayid2]

Did you really make an account just to take umbrage at chabadsker misconceptions in threads that have been quiet for months?

… and another ad hominem attack duly noted

[Dan]

… and another ad hominem attack duly noted

Not really. This is clearly an existing user duplicate account.

[imayid2]

Not really. This is clearly an existing user duplicate account.

No, it is not.

[avromie7]

... found the crucial need for it given there was no CY in the States, (Tzehlimer Rov was the first to implement CY in mass scale with the J&J), and how they viewed yiddishkeit in America at the time to be doomed.

That is irrelevant to the question of if they held it's assur.