The Rolls Must Be Hamotzi, But The Milk Can Be Cholov Stam

[Dan]

What is your point in pushing a claim that as I said I know to be untrue?

I don’t like people being banned for no reason and a rule violation selectively enforced. I like to speed sometimes too

If you don't have a 2nd account, why would you be worried about that?

[EliJelly]

This is ridiculous red herring. These things are at the discretion of the poskei hador and Rav Moshe felt in was a justifiable heter.

With numerous follow ups not to be somech on when one must not.

[imayid2]

If you don't have a 2nd account, why would you be worried about that?

There are a whole list of rules, I’m violating one right now by discussing mod action as you pointed out.

[imayid2]

With numerous follow ups not to be somech on when one must not.

Absolutely and totally irrelevant to our discussion.

[avromie7]

With numerous follow ups not to be somech on when one must not.

That many be your understanding, his children disagree.

[imayid2]

I have heard that the old editions of  חזו״א says one can be somech on the פרי חדש however in the newer editions it has been removed. Either way it has nothing to do with the hetter from R Moshe, and if one in America is somech on R Moshe it would not allow them rely on R Tzvi Pesach Frank which relies on the פרי חדש. Therefor they cannot eat non-mehadrin dairy products in Israel which say on the Avkas Cholov Nachri.

Safe to assume the חזו״א isn’t behind the removal…

Why can someone rely on Rav Moshe and not rely on Rav Tzvi Pesach? Do you mean that wherever allowed him to allow on Rav Moshe wouldn’t necessarily allow him to rely on that? YMMV I suppose.

[Dan]

There are a whole list of rules, I’m violating one right now by discussing mod action as you pointed out.

Adverse actions with anything in life is usually a confluence of factors, but yes, sticking to the rules is good advice.

[imayid2]

That many be your understanding, his children disagree.

Hard to say “understanding” when he writes it explicitly numerous times and people say he told them that.

[aygart]

This is ridiculous red herring. These things are at the discretion of the poskei hador and Rav Moshe felt in was a justifiable heter.

I wrote nothing at all about whether or not the heater was justifiable and I am not sure why you are bringing that into what I wrote.

[imayid2]

I wrote nothing at all about whether or not the heater was justifiable and I am not sure why you are bringing that into what I wrote.

Because Rav Moshe took into account the fact that many chashuvim were being meikal, a point you just tried to negate.

[aygart]

What is your point in pushing a claim that as I said I know to be untrue?

I don’t like people being banned for no reason and a rule violation selectively enforced. I like to speed sometimes too

I am not pushing anything at all. I have no clue whether or not it is a duplicate account. Right now you feel you have conclusive evidence that it is not and apparently Dan is not convinced against hiss system to find them and I don't really care one way or another.

[imayid2]

Adverse actions with anything in life is usually a confluence of factors, but yes, sticking to the rules is good advice.

If the DOJ wants to put me behind bars, they will find a way to do it no matter how good of a rule stickler I am.

[aygart]

Because Rav Moshe took into account the fact that many chashuvim were being meikal, a point you just tried to negate.

That is not there in the part you posted.

[EliJelly]

Absolutely and totally irrelevant to our discussion.

Can give some merit to the claims that Reb Moshe saw a crucial need for his mechudesh heter back then.

That many be your understanding, his children disagree.

Pretty black and white for everyone reading what he wrote, no two ways about it.

One of a few.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1832556/new-letter-from-rav-moshe-feinstein-ztl-on-cholov-yisroel-appears.html

[imayid2]

Right now you feel you have conclusive evidence that it is not and apparently Dan is not convinced against hiss system to find them and I don't really care one way or another.

Right so you weighed in that you see similarities, so it makes sense I’d ask about them, no?

[imayid2]

Can give some merit to the claims that Reb Moshe saw a crucial need for his mechudesh heter back then.

It is crystal clear he held it was 100 percent correct and not just a limud zechus etc

[aygart]

If the DOJ wants to put me behind bars, they will find a way to do it no matter how good of a rule stickler I am.

“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”

[EliJelly]

It is crystal clear he held it was 100 percent correct and not just a limud zechus etc

You don't want to call it limud zechus, no problem. Clearly he wasn't comfortable people applying it when there was no shaas hadchak.

[avromie7]

You don't want to call it limud zechus, no problem. Clearly he wasn't comfortable people applying it when there was no shaas hadchak.

Like when it's more expensive?

[EliJelly]

Like when it's more expensive?

Come on, it's ALWAYS more expensive.