The Rolls Must Be Hamotzi, But The Milk Can Be Cholov Stam

[Mocha]

OT but for the record Oreo cookies are DE and do not contain dairy

[YankyDoodle]

Was it actual dairy or is Chabad makpid on dairy equipment as well?

The whole idea of equipment being less stringent than the item itself is based on N"T bar N"T (as things get passed from item to dish and onto the next item the "flavor weakens") This only applies to an Issura (N'T bar N"T l'heteira does not exist.)

Assuming that cholov yisroel is considered a halachik issue (and not simply a chumra) there is no heter for DE. So yes, Chabad is makpid on DE.

(I apologize for not having any quotes, don't lug my shulchan aruch around with me  maybe someone can help out with mekoros)

[Mocha]

The whole idea of equipment being less stringent than the item itself is based on N"T bar N"T (as things get passed from item to dish and onto the next item the "flavor weakens") This only applies to an Issura (N'T bar N"T l'heteira does not exist.)

This is under the assumption that they don't clean their equipments which I find incredibly hard to believe, as they can get their kahoony's sued off if someone got an allergic reaction from dairy being found in the cookie. That being aside the concept of buttle bishishim would definitely apply in this situation and that my friend is likula.

[whYME]

This is under the assumption that they don't clean their equipments which I find incredibly hard to believe

yeah but considering the cleaning they do (is it called CEP? it's been quite a while...) kashering is very b'dieved...

[Mocha]

yeah but considering the cleaning they do (is it called CEP? it's been quite a while...) kashering is very b'dieved...

This is not binogeia kashering.

YankeeDoole said:

The whole idea of equipment being less stringent than the item itself is based on N"T bar N"T (as things get passed from item to dish and onto the next item the "flavor weakens") This only applies to an Issura (N'T bar N"T l'heteira does not exist.)

And I'm saying that there is nothing being "passed" from dish to dish.

[steeeveknowsbest]

interestingly i also heard the story of R Moshe vomiting it up from the very same person who told me that he had chalav stam milk in his fridge and that is why i only took issue with dirah's statement that it was never allowed in his house.                                               while i do believe that R Moshe would be extra makpid on things for himself while allowing it completly for others as can be often evidenced in his teshuvos (for instance his says that sugar does not need kli shlishi even though you may see me doing it) yet i can see why someone would say that it seems out of charactor as R Moshe was super calm and deliberate one of his outstanding features was the clarity and lack of excitement with which he paskened crazy difficult on the spot shailos, so It's hard to imagine him compulsivly shoving his finger down his throat, (although if he felt it was proper of course he would do so). in general the litvish gedolim of last generation avoided grandiose gestures and kept very controlled

[whYME]

This is not binogeia kashering.

And I'm saying that there is nothing being "passed" from dish to dish.

Either I'm missing something or those two statements are contradictory. (ok, so maybe "kashering" was technically the wrong term, but my point still stands)

[Mocha]

Either I'm missing something or those two statements are contradictory. (ok, so maybe "kashering" was technically the wrong term, but my point still stands)

Most people that are makpid on Ch'S wouldn't say that you would need to kasher a person that isn't makpids' utensils. They just refrain from eating actual Ch'S.

[Chaikel]

The whole idea of equipment being less stringent than the item itself is based on N"T bar N"T (as things get passed from item to dish and onto the next item the "flavor weakens") This only applies to an Issura (N'T bar N"T l'heteira does not exist.)

I believe you got that backwards. NT bar NT is only beheteira. Once it's Issur it is ischazek issura and never goes away even with 100 NTs. One of the example cases is cooking fish in a milchig pot, then eating the fish with meat

[Chaikel]

Based on?
I just did it myself when I realized I was eating something that was always parve and became OU-D

For what purpose? The "Issur" was already done, what did that accomplish?

[Chaikel]

That being aside the concept of buttle bishishim would definitely apply in this situation and that my friend is likula.

We pasken there is never 60 against a kli from what is inside

[Dan]

For what purpose? The "Issur" was already done, what did that accomplish?

Hergesh

[Chaikel]

Hergesh

[YankyDoodle]

I believe you got that backwards. NT bar NT is only beheteira. Once it's Issur it is ischazek issura and never goes away even with 100 NTs. One of the example cases is cooking fish in a milchig pot, then eating the fish with meat

I am 99% sure, that when it comes to an issura then bec of N"T bar N"T it is fine to eat it. As opposed to a dvar heter (i.e. milk from a cow) N"T bar N"T will not remove the item. As I said I do not have my shuchan Aruch with me, but if someone else can confirm/post mekoros it would be appreciated.

This is under the assumption that they don't clean their equipments which I find incredibly hard to believe, as they can get their kahoony's sued off if someone got an allergic reaction from dairy being found in the cookie.

Au contraire! This is exactly the concept of N"T bar N"T! Regardless of how many times it has been washed out (if the pot is DE, bec ch"s was cooked in it) it will retain its status as DE (since there is no N"T bar N"T l'hetaira!)

Most people that are makpid on Ch'S wouldn't say that you would need to kasher a person that isn't makpids' utensils. They just refrain from eating actual Ch'S.

I can't speak for most ppl (although I can prob speak better than you can on this topic, seeing as it isn't something you're personally careful about) but I would not, again for the very same reason (DE). I would possibly eat something cold on the dishes, but I would not eat mac n' cheese on DE dishes (even it was made this time with ch"y).

[YankyDoodle]

Hergesh

What would you do if you ate pork (kviyachal)?

[shmuelb]

It is geshmak to see such Yiddishkeit here, such care and concern! (not being sarcastic)

Dan- for the bathroom, if it is stinky, anyways you should complain and show off your cards. Find another bathroom ... What I usually do is flush, close toilet lid, wash with a real cup (bring or get from lounge?) with the door open and dry hands outside. Best option is wash in (plane's) kitchen sink.

Keep shteiging and trying to do everything l'chatchila!

[YankyDoodle]

It is geshmak to see such Yiddishkeit here, such care and concern! (not being sarcastic)

Dan- for the bathroom, if it is stinky, anyways you should complain and show off your cards. Find another bathroom ... What I usually do is flush, close toilet lid, wash with a real cup (bring or get from lounge?) with the door open and dry hands outside. Best option is wash in (plane's) kitchen sink.

Keep shteiging and trying to do everything l'chatchila!

I ususally borrow the pilots hat for davening, announce zman krias shema on the loudspeaker, and cover the tv's with a blanket. (Since they stopped giving out blankets on every flight I bring extra just in case. I also kasher the plane's kitchen sink just for the heck of it.

Dan - do you wanna know how I eat my peanuts?

 

[Mocha]

I would possibly eat something cold on the dishes, but I would not eat mac n' cheese on DE dishes (even it was made this time with ch"y).

Listen the bottom line is that most people don't hold that Ch'S makes the utensils treif. R' Moshe, although recommending one be machmir, clearly writes that one who relies on it is not a m'zalzel b'issurim.
You can speak for yourself but I know countless of people that are makpid on only eating Ch"Y, and not be makpid on the utensils. It could be because they assume that the keilim are aino ben yomo, or because they only accepted CH"Y as a chumra. You could disagree all you want but it seems to be a very common practice to not be makpid on keilim

[Chaikel]

I am 99% sure, that when it comes to an issura then bec of N"T bar N"T it is fine to eat it. As opposed to a dvar heter (i.e. milk from a cow) N"T bar N"T will not remove the item. As I said I do not have my shuchan Aruch with me, but if someone else can confirm/post mekoros it would be appreciated.

YD 95-3

[Chaikel]

What would you do if you ate pork (kviyachal)?

I believe throwing up actually creates more problems lehalacha. Have to double check, but that's what ligt mir in kop