The Rolls Must Be Hamotzi, But The Milk Can Be Cholov Stam

[dirah]

without giving my opinion on the halachic issue, this "fact" is patently false, as R' Moshe did allow his family to eat Ch'S and keep it in the home, In addition it should be noted that R' Rueven Feinstein presently isn't makpid

My fact is based on Mishne Halachos (4:103). Direct quote (If your browser displays Hebrew):
הגאון ר' משה שליט"א ... אמר לי מפורש שבביתו ח"ו אין נכנס חלב עכו"ם לא מיניה ולא מקצתו

 

I believe you got that backwards. NT bar NT is only beheteira. Once it's Issur it is ischazek issura and never goes away even with 100 NTs. One of the example cases is cooking fish in a milchig pot, then eating the fish with meat

+1.
YankyDoodle, you got it wrong.
It is N”T Bar N”T Lheteira. That is why DE makes a difference for those who drink Chalav Stam, being that they hold it is Heteira. It makes no difference for those who don’t drink Chalav Stam, because for them it is an Issur.

[dirah]

R' Reuven's grandson told me that he asked R' Reuven whether he should be makpid on CS, and he replied "I'm not frum enough to be makpid, you are for sure not"

Huh?

Most people that are makpid on Ch'S wouldn't say that you would need to kasher a person that isn't makpids' utensils. They just refrain from eating actual Ch'S.

Listen the bottom line is that most people don't hold that Ch'S makes the utensils treif. m'zalzel b'issurim.
You can speak for yourself but I know countless of people that are makpid on only eating Ch"Y, and not be makpid on the utensils. It could be because they assume that the keilim are aino ben yomo, or because they only accepted CH"Y as a chumra. You could disagree all you want but it seems to be a very common practice to not be makpid on keilim

It is self-contradictory to hold that Cholov Stam is Ossur, yet use its dairy equipment (used for hot). “Seeing countless people doing it” is not a Halachic argument. Otherwise, it would be a Hiddur Mitzvah to speak during Chazaras HaShatz.

[Mocha]

It is self-contradictory to hold that Cholov Stam is Ossur, yet use its dairy equipment (used for hot). “Seeing countless people doing it” is not a Halachic argument.

My point is that most hold (Reb Moshe including) that it's not assur yet are makpid not to eat it. Rendering the keilim kosher.

Otherwise, it would be a Hiddur Mitzvah to speak during Chazaras HaShatz.

Cute

[whYME]

“Seeing countless people doing it” is not a Halachic argument. Otherwise, it would be a Hiddur Mitzvah to speak during Chazaras HaShatz.

[dirah]

That being aside the concept of buttle bishishim would definitely apply in this situation and that my friend is likula.

Equipment which was used for Issur becomes forbidden to use for Hetter until it is Kashered. Bittul and Eynoi Ben Yomo don’t help to allow one to use such equipment L’Chatchila without Kashering it. And, most reputable agencies, OU included, do not give Hashgocho on any food where the equipment requires Kashering. [Even though when the consumer buys the food it is already a Bdieved, since the food was already prepared, the actual act of giving a Hechsher is regarded as a L’Chatchila. Hence, no Hechsher can be given.]

For what purpose? The "Issur" was already done, what did that accomplish?

See Remo (YD 81:7) that one must be careful with Kashrus even with regards to someone who is not a Bar Chiyuv (such as a baby), because the food becomes part of him!

[Mocha]

Equipment which was used for Issur becomes forbidden to use for Hetter until it is Kashered. Bittul and Eynoi Ben Yomo don’t help to allow one to use such equipment L’Chatchila without Kashering it.

  Your clearly of the opinion that Ch"S is an issur and not a chumra. That difference between us seems to be flying right over your head.
See here

[dirah]

  Your clearly of the opinion that Ch"S is an issur and not a chumra. That difference between us seems to be flying right over your head.
See here

I clearly am not getting it. If it is Muttar, what do you need Bittul and Eynoi Ben Yomo for? And if it is Ossur, these things will not help with regards to Kailim!

[Mocha]

I clearly am not getting it. If it is Muttar, what do you need Bittul and Eynoi Ben Yomo for? And if it is Ossur, these things will not help with regards to Kailim!

If it is muttar but people chose to be makpid then you could rely on bittul on the chashash that some milk was left over on the equipment.

[dirah]

If it is muttar but people chose to be makpid then you could rely on bittul on the chashash that some milk was left over on the equipment.

As in, HaPeh SheOssar hu HaPeh Shehittir?
I am not even going to try to understand what you just wrote.
I am not even sure I know how to repond:

[YankyDoodle]

+1.
YankyDoodle, you got it wrong.
It is N”T Bar N”T Lheteira. That is why DE makes a difference for those who drink Chalav Stam, being that they hold it is Heteira. It makes no difference for those who don’t drink Chalav Stam, because for them it is an Issur.

YD 95-3

Sorry guys. You are absolutely right! I guess that's why the first rule of Smicha is to realize that we are not poskim, just that we have the tools to look in the right places. As Roger Clemens once said, I 'misremembered'

[YOSEF]

Heard first hand a story that when Reb Moshe unknowingly was served Ch'S by his son-in-law, and when he was told he went to the bathroom and threw it up.

The way I heard it was that someone asked Reb Moshe's SIL or grandson, "I heard Reb Moshe ate Chalav Stam and threw up", and the SIL answered, "both stories are true!!!"

[shmuelb]

As in, HaPeh SheOssar hu HaPeh Shehittir?
I am not even going to try to understand what you just wrote.
I am not even sure I know how to repond:

I understand it that you can be makpid - machmir - not to eat Ch'S mamash but not makpid for keilim. It is a minhag, not psak.

Rav Moshe said Baal Nefesh Yachmir, it is yadua, as has been quoted here, that bnei beiso are not makpid, they hold they are not on the level of "Baal Nefesh". Nowadays people adopt all sorts of chumras without having the basics in hashkafa and Yidishkeit. It is the sign of our Dor, a focus on the external and pettiness. Chas veShalom to minimize the Chashivus of chumros, but it is not the ikar.

[shmuelb]

I ususally borrow the pilots hat for davening, announce zman krias shema on the loudspeaker, and cover the tv's with a blanket. (Since they stopped giving out blankets on every flight I bring extra just in case. I also kasher the plane's kitchen sink just for the heck of it.

Dan - do you wanna know how I eat my peanuts?

 

Thanks Yanky,

To clarify, I try to do everything as inconspicuous and subtle as possible, without inconveniencing anyone.

[Chaikel]

Rav Moshe said Baal Nefesh Yachmir, it is yadua, as has been quoted here, that bnei beiso are not makpid, they hold they are not on the level of "Baal Nefesh". Nowadays people adopt all sorts of chumras without having the basics in hashkafa and Yidishkeit. It is the sign of our Dor, a focus on the external and pettiness. Chas veShalom to minimize the Chashivus of chumros, but it is not the ikar.

A rav just told me that when someone comes to him and asks him whether he should be makpid on certain chumras that aren't mekubal across the board he tells them not to be machmir. If you have to ask, then you're not holding at a point where you should be machmir

[SuperFlyer]

A rav just told me that when someone comes to him and asks him whether he should be makpid on certain chumras that aren't mekubal across the board he tells them not to be machmir. If you have to ask, then you're not holding at a point where you should be machmir

I've heard just the opposite reasoning as well...

[Chaikel]

I've heard just the opposite reasoning as well...

I hear, but I think he was referring to the ppl that were being hesitant

[SuperFlyer]

I hear, but I think he was referring to the ppl that were being hesitant

That's what I mean.

[AsherO]

I believe throwing up actually creates more problems lehalacha. Have to double check, but that's what ligt mir in kop

Wouldn't that be taam nifgam?

See Remo (YD 81:7) that one must be careful with Kashrus even with regards to someone who is not a Bar Chiyuv (such as a baby), because the food becomes part of him!

Thanks! A Torah source for "you are what you eat"

The way I heard it was that someone asked Reb Moshe's SIL or grandson, "I heard Reb Moshe ate Chalav Stam and threw up", and the SIL answered, "both stories are true!!!"

You notice he answered diplomatically but neither confirmed nor denied the story...

[Dan]

I believe throwing up actually creates more problems lehalacha. Have to double check, but that's what ligt mir in kop

I didn't make a halachik decision, it was a reaction that was made on a chasiddishe hergesh as I said.  All those years of hearing about how cholov stam will be m'tamtem lev' v'moach and all that good stuff.

[Chaikel]

I didn't make a halachik decision, it was a reaction that was made on a chasiddishe hergesh as I said.  All those years of hearing about how cholov stam will be m'tamtem lev' v'moach and all that good stuff.

Turns out I'm wrong about that part