Poll

Who do you think will win the superbowl

Giants
33 (53.2%)
Patriots
11 (17.7%)
Do not care
13 (21%)
Cant vote because I am a jets fan!
5 (8.1%)

Total Members Voted: 62

Voting closed: February 06, 2012, 12:48:30 AM

Author Topic: Superbowl  (Read 23005 times)

Offline whYME

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2012, 03:32:36 PM »

Whatever the technical defition of "rivalry" is I think this is the key point:
I'm going to have to agree with YankeeD on this one. There isn't a real rivalry between the giants and jets. Granted each teams fans wants the other team to lose but that's just so you can laugh at your friends. If you were out of town w/o any jets fans would you care what they did?





I don't follow football at all but I get the impression from my friends who are Jets fans that they root for anybody over the Pats, even the Giants...

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2012, 04:52:18 PM »
The root of the controversy here is really the fickle way that we throw the word "rivalry" around. (Compounded by the thousands of couch/potato/blogosphere sports fans who have the time/lack of real job to think about how to get ppl more riled up about sports.) A rivalry can only exist between successful teams. These successful teams must play each other on a regular basis (think arch-nemesis.)

How do you know if it is a real rivalry or not? If you can think of more than two teams (I am tempted to say one) that your favorite team is rivals with...you prob aren't rivals.

College football is one of the oldest team oriented sports. Ohio State is an old and very successful program. There is only one rivalry...Michigan. That is bec. they play the last game of the regular season every year and have routinely destroyed the other teams title hopes. There are numerous other teams that Ohio State plays every year with high stakes but there is nobody that constitutes a rivalry like Michigan.

Offline momo

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2012, 04:54:57 PM »
In Hockey the islanders and rangers are HUGE rivals and the islanders stink and have for years!

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2012, 05:04:07 PM »
A number of years out of a long history is fine (does dull the intensity but rivalry can still exist.) I am not the biggest hockey guy so I can't speak to that so specifically. The Rangers however haven't been a great team lately either. Back in the day there was hardly a greater rivalry than the Stillers and my Brownies, the Browns haven't been even remotely decent since the move and to Browns fans there is still no team more hated than the Steelers (the rivalry is no longer what it once was, that is partially due to how long it's been since they've had meaningful games but it's also complicated by losing the team and with it a generation of fans.)

Offline momo

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2012, 05:10:38 PM »
Big ranger fan and the rivalry still exists. There are always a few fights when the rangers and islanders get together

Offline jj1000

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2012, 05:35:37 PM »
A number of years out of a long history is fine (does dull the intensity but rivalry can still exist.) I am not the biggest hockey guy so I can't speak to that so specifically. The Rangers however haven't been a great team lately either. Back in the day there was hardly a greater rivalry than the Stillers and my Brownies, the Browns haven't been even remotely decent since the move and to Browns fans there is still no team more hated than the Steelers (the rivalry is no longer what it once was, that is partially due to how long it's been since they've had meaningful games but it's also complicated by losing the team and with it a generation of fans.)
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2012, 12:43:39 AM »
okay so your first component is that there is a direct competition between them which doesn't apply by giants-jets seeing how they are in different  conferences and only play once every 4 years.
Once again, read what I actually wrote.
... the teams are competing closely with each other for some goal or other...
... 2 teams in the same city... are also always competing to be "the team" of that city.
They don't have to play games against each other to compete for that goal. It certainly helps when they do get to meet on the field, but even when they're not, they're competing for the bragging rights to the city.
second was that they both have to be relevant and as you so nicely pointed out most years that is not the case.
Not sure where I pointed out that it's not the case.
Since 2000, they each have had only 3 losing seasons and each has had a better record than the other 6 times over that 12 season span.
Translation: They've both played mostly winning football (ie giving them relevance) without one team holding being dominant over the other.


The root of the controversy here is really the fickle way that we throw the word "rivalry" around. (Compounded by the thousands of couch/potato/blogosphere sports fans who have the time/lack of real job to think about how to get ppl more riled up about sports.) A rivalry can only exist between successful teams. These successful teams must play each other on a regular basis (think arch-nemesis.)

How do you know if it is a real rivalry or not? If you can think of more than two teams (I am tempted to say one) that your favorite team is rivals with...you prob aren't rivals.

College football is one of the oldest team oriented sports. Ohio State is an old and very successful program. There is only one rivalry...Michigan. That is bec. they play the last game of the regular season every year and have routinely destroyed the other teams title hopes. There are numerous other teams that Ohio State plays every year with high stakes but there is nobody that constitutes a rivalry like Michigan.
I agree that the rivalry tag gets thrown around too often, this just isn't one of those times. You picked Michigan-Ohio St as an example, rightfully so given its magnitude. But the majority of big college football rivalries are in state, which just highlights the idea that when 2 teams have overlapping turf, when they compete for the allegiance of many of the same fans, there is an innate rivalry.

Offline bubbles

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Superbowl
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2012, 01:14:24 AM »
Once again, read what I actually wrote.They don't have to play games against each other to compete for that goal. It certainly helps when they do get to meet on the field, but even when they're not, they're competing for the bragging rights to the city.Not sure where I pointed out that it's not the case.Translation: They've both played mostly winning football (ie giving them relevance) without one team holding being dominant over the other.

I agree that the rivalry tag gets thrown around too often, this just isn't one of those times. You picked Michigan-Ohio St as an example, rightfully so given its magnitude. But the majority of big college football rivalries are in state, which just highlights the idea that when 2 teams have overlapping turf, when they compete for the allegiance of many of the same fans, there is an innate rivalry.

Let's try this from a different tack. Slightly OT but humor me plz. You a Yankees or mets fan?

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2012, 06:25:35 AM »

I agree that the rivalry tag gets thrown around too often, this just isn't one of those times. You picked Michigan-Ohio St as an example, rightfully so given its magnitude. But the majority of big college football rivalries are in state, which just highlights the idea that when 2 teams have overlapping turf, when they compete for the allegiance of many of the same fans, there is an innate rivalry.

Name me one in-state or outta state rivalry in college football that doesn't play at least every other year? You gotta play games against each other otherwise you can argue that Ohio State football is a hugh rivalry with Ohio State basketball! (after all they are "competing for the hearts and interest of the same fan base.)

Offline HelpMe

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #54 on: February 03, 2012, 06:44:26 AM »
Let's try this from a different tack. Slightly OT but humor me plz. You a Yankees or mets fan?
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #55 on: February 03, 2012, 09:50:30 AM »
Let's try this from a different tack. Slightly OT but humor me plz. You a Yankees or mets fan?

Neither. But regardless, as I already mentioned, Yanks and Mets is not a rivalry because they are so infrequently playing anywhere near each other's level.

Name me one in-state or outta state rivalry in college football that doesn't play at least every other year? You gotta play games against each other otherwise you can argue that Ohio State football is a hugh rivalry with Ohio State basketball! (after all they are "competing for the hearts and interest of the same fan base.)
Of course they play each other, I'm not saying its the same exact situation as Jets and Giants. My point is that the reason USC - UCLA is a rivalry and not Oregon - UCLA for example, is because they play in the same city.
As far as different sports, I shouldn't have to bother pointing this our, but you can root for a school's football and basketball teams. The teams don't compete for the same fan base because there's nothing wrong with supporting both. If you told someone you're a Jets and Giants fan, you'd get funny looks, hence they are competing for the fans.

Offline bubbles

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2012, 10:19:17 AM »
Neither. But regardless, as I already mentioned, Yanks and Mets is not a rivalry because they are so infrequently playing anywhere near each other's level.


Not where I was going with that, wanted to see if you were a fan of a team that ever won a championship, or had a real meaningful rivalry, or all you know of is trying to be taken seriously (unsuccessfully) by your town. You say the yankees and METS are not a rivalry because "they are so infrequently playing anywhere near each other's level". Can you tell me how many times in their histories the giants and jets made the playoffs in the same year? Now how about the yankees and METS? Seems to me you're judging this all based on the last 3 years since Rex Ryan showed up and started making noise how he is "taking over the city". But even if you are basing it on recent history how many times have the jets actually won their division in recent years? So then you're going to tell me but they made runs in the playoffs, but again how many of those years were giants even in the playoffs? I think it's ludicrous to base a rivalry on the fact that they switch off years being good. How can you feel that they are in direct competition if they never even got close to competing with each other for a title? The yankees and METS had a subway series just a few years ago! In spite of that, all that exists there is MET fans hating on the yankees and that's all that is going to exist here too until the jets actually win something.

Offline smurf

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2012, 11:15:13 AM »
don't need a TV. It's gonna be streaming live on nbcsports.com
info here

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2012, 12:02:06 PM »
Of course they play each other, I'm not saying its the same exact situation as Jets and Giants. My point is that the reason USC - UCLA is a rivalry and not Oregon - UCLA for example, is because they play in the same city.
As far as different sports, I shouldn't have to bother pointing this our, but you can root for a school's football and basketball teams. The teams don't compete for the same fan base because there's nothing wrong with supporting both. If you told someone you're a Jets and Giants fan, you'd get funny looks, hence they are competing for the fans.

You still gotta play meaningful games against each other often (as USC-UCLA do) and then an intra-city rivalry means something. If you can't accept that you're deluding yourself... I'm not sure why you are so fixated on prooving that it is a rivalry?

Offline mercaz1

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Re: Superbowl
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2012, 12:48:09 PM »
competing for fans does not a rivalry make