Horrific Mental Health Related Tragedy In Lakewood

[S209]

Weird thing - if you look at the house on Google maps, it's blurred out. None of the other houses on the block are blurred.

Super weird. Looks like it’s from 2 years ago though.

[nsastamps]

https://www.google.com/local/imagery/report/?cb_client=maps_sv.tactile&image_key=!1e2!2sSuC463Z-ztL5s9ix3jV4mg&hl=en&gl=us&cbp=1%2C4%2C%2C0%2C0

Anyone can request it for their address.

[AsherO]

And if that's the case, then as sad as it sounds they should be put into a mental hospital. I don't think everything has a cure, but more awareness will help people understand that the same way people die from cancer (even with treatment) some peoples mental illness is too strong for them to live unsupervised.

We have more than enough “awareness” (in the literal sense) in our community. We might be lacking in compassion, sensitivity, stigma, and the human decency to tone down gossip. No amount of “awareness” (as in talking about mental health more) can really help those. It’s really the nature of the dialogue that needs to change.

[avromie7]

Weird thing - if you look at the house on Google maps, it's blurred out. None of the other houses on the block are blurred.

You can request google blurs your house. Theres nothing to see on google, especially considering it's the basement tenant.

[daybyday]

We have more than enough “awareness” (in the literal sense) in our community. We might be lacking in compassion, sensitivity, stigma, and the human decency to tone down gossip. No amount of “awareness” (as in talking about mental health more) can really help those. It’s really the nature of the dialogue that needs to change.

This is part of the issue. Another part of the issue is the frum community/upbringing often pushes people with mental illness issues into parenthood, despite being clearly unfit. In many cases, families / young people see marriage as the end goal, yet realistically, some of these individuals should be strongly encouraged to not have children.

[yuneeq]

https://thelakewoodscoop.com/news/letter-from-a-relative-regarding-the-unfathomable-tragedy-in-lakewood/

P.s. I think this topic should be moved to a different thread

[jye]

I heard from both a relative and a neighbor that she seemed perfectly fine even to those close to her as recently as this week.

It’s not always possible to spot. Sometimes, episodes occur with no warning.

https://thelakewoodscoop.com/news/audio-processing-the-tragedy-in-lakewood-rabbi-moshe-rotberg/

[flyingace]

This is part of the issue. Another part of the issue is the frum community/upbringing often pushes people with mental illness issues into parenthood, despite being clearly unfit. In many cases, families / young people see marriage as the end goal, yet realistically, some of these individuals should be strongly encouraged to not have children.

The hateful comments on other sites have started. Blaming the Charedim, the Rabbis, the patriarchal society… This is a tragic case of a psychotic episode. Why does it mean that there is societal cause for this? Yes, we should do teshuva  as with every tragedy, but making this into a communal issue is not helpful, imho.

[JMHO]

P.s. I think this topic should be moved to a different thread

+1

[Definitions2]

This is part of the issue. Another part of the issue is the frum community/upbringing often pushes people with mental illness issues into parenthood, despite being clearly unfit. In many cases, families / young people see marriage as the end goal, yet realistically, some of these individuals should be strongly encouraged to not have children.

EuGeNiCs.
I'd imagine there is a strong a halachick/hashkafic reason against this.
Also practically speaking it won't happen.

The golden standard imo is for gene editing to be available (and even then it will likely be a halachik problem). Until then yes I agree with you but it won't happen.

I truly hope it will become a reality soon.

[notyettaken]

EuGeNiCs.

i don't think he meant this i think he was saying that people who are not stable or can't cope with stress (yes there is a range, i know) should not have kids. this is not about trying to filter the gene pool it's about not taking on a job your not ready for and can't quit.

also about the comments about our society, they should took at there own, this is almost a daily occurrence (7 per 100,000 and 3.5m births a year) and that's with safe haven laws.

[AsherO]

This is part of the issue. Another part of the issue is the frum community/upbringing often pushes people with mental illness issues into parenthood, despite being clearly unfit. In many cases, families / young people see marriage as the end goal, yet realistically, some of these individuals should be strongly encouraged to not have children.

Good luck drawing that line.

[Something Fishy]

P.s. I think this topic should be moved to a different thread

Done

[avromie7]

The PSA is to take mental illness seriously and make sure the mother has the support and intervention they need.

Awareness is for things that happen, things like this simply don't happen. I'm not aware of anything like this ever happening before, and it's not because it's swept under the rug.

[yfr bachur]

There's tons of seperate issues to unpack, that are brought up by this story.

I've been pretty open on the forum about my infant son"s z"l death five years ago. Since then I've been in contact with dozens of families that had similar stories.
I went through a relatively gentle police interogation, but other families weren't so lucky.
People love to attack the police and say what are they looking for, we don't do stuff like that...
I've always maintained that just wearing a hat and jacket or snood/shaitle does not provide immunity to anger, mental illness, or being overwhelmed to the point of loosing control. This is not the first time tis has happened in our comunities, and unfortunatley likely not the last. B"H usually child services or the extended family become involved, before the police and CK...

One of my children born afterwards was a screamer, and my wife and I got extremely sleep deprived. It was misrable. One night I found myself, seconds from just shaking the baby till she learned how to shut up... B"H I caught myself, and went to get help the next day, - but it can happen to anyone, even a nice calm guy like me.

I've heard from profesionals in the field that the rates of mothers in our community on anti depression meds is much higher than the general population, which has to to with the unreal expectations and demands put on them.

With regard to some people not being capable of being parents -
A. לא תעמוד על דם רעך should apply to the prospective children.
B. Some people are responsible about their childrens capabilities. I know my wife has a married "friend", who can't understand why although she has taken a "fertility" med every day since she got married, as her doctor prescribed her. she has not been able to get pregnant in over a decade. My wife understands exactly why this is being done to this woman, though she feels terrible about her agmas nefesh.

[avromie7]

There's tons of seperate issues to unpack, that are brought up by this story.

I've been pretty open on the forum about my infant son"s z"l death five years ago. Since then I've been in contact with dozens of families that had similar stories.
I went through a relatively gentle police interogation, but other families weren't so lucky.
People love to attack the police and say what are they looking for, we don't do stuff like that...
I've always maintained that just wearing a hat and jacket or snood/shaitle does not provide immunity to anger, mental illness, or being overwhelmed to the point of loosing control. This is not the first time tis has happened in our comunities, and unfortunatley likely not the last. B"H usually child services or the extended family become involved, before the police and CK...

One of my children born afterwards was a screamer, and my wife and I got extremely sleep deprived. It was misrable. One night I found myself, seconds from just shaking the baby till she learned how to shut up... B"H I caught myself, and went to get help the next day, - but it can happen to anyone, even a nice calm guy like me.

I've heard from profesionals in the field that the rates of mothers in our community on anti depression meds is much higher than the general population, which has to to with the unreal expectations and demands put on them.

With regard to some people not being capable of being parents -
A. לא תעמוד על דם רעך should apply to the prospective children.
B. Some people are responsible about their childrens capabilities. I know my wife has a married "friend", who can't understand why although she has taken a "fertility" med every day since she got married, as her doctor prescribed her. she has not been able to get pregnant in over a decade. My wife understands exactly why this is being done to this woman, though she feels terrible about her agmas nefesh.

Abuse and neglect unfortunately happen. This doesn't.

[ellemeno]

Abuse and neglect unfortunately happen. This doesn't.

An acquaintance of mine does frequent visits to mental institutions/wards. Unfortunately those are being used by many of 'us' for a long list of conditions. After listening to too many  stories that happened I started to wonder why people think that behavior that is triggered by mental illness can only happen to 'them' and not to 'us'

[Definitions2]

B. Some people are responsible about their childrens capabilities. I know my wife has a married "friend", who can't understand why although she has taken a "fertility" med every day since she got married, as her doctor prescribed her. she has not been able to get pregnant in over a decade. My wife understands exactly why this is being done to this woman, though she feels terrible about her agmas nefesh.

I don't understand what you mean here. Can you clarify?

[Ver hut gazugt]

I don't understand what you mean here. Can you clarify?

I sounds like her doctor lied to her. And gave her birth control pills and called it a birth pill. Highly unethical and I don’t think it is legal.

[avromie7]

I sounds like her doctor lied to her. And gave her birth control pills and called it a birth pill. Highly unethical and I don’t think it is legal.

Did the Dr lie or the family lied? He said the Dr prescribed it.