Author Topic: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes  (Read 9017 times)

Offline yelped

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #120 on: November 04, 2024, 10:13:56 PM »
I always thought this was a given, here is a picture of the Siddur vilna klalei dikduk in the beginning where he mentions it.although I do see now that they reference the minchas Shai which I am attaching as well, who says that pasach genuva is only by ches and ayin so apparently it isn’t as clear cut as I thought.
Just curious how most people read the word govoah? Do you say sukka she-he govohah?
I've only heard it once by a Hei from all my Rebbes.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #121 on: November 04, 2024, 10:33:33 PM »
I debated if I should post, it's pretty painful.

The chazan at a recent musaf I davened with, a charedi israeli bachur, mixed up all his segols and tzeirehs, had a couple alef and hei mishmashes, and gave us the following gems:
וינוחו בו כל ישראל מקצבי שמך
  בא"י המחזיר שינתו לציון
And a bunch of others. Hurt my ears.
Often when hearing krias hatorah from Israeli Ashkenazim, the lack of care to differentiate segols from tzeires, kamatz from cholam, chirik and shva makes me really cringe and wonder if I need to hear kirah again....

Israelis are usually the worst. Maybe if they would realize that the language they speak on a daily basis is a DIFFERENT LANGUAGE (despite similarities), there would be hope.

Mixing up שווא, סגול & צירי. Not differentiating or mixing up קמץ & חולם. Alef & Hei (mostly yerushalmi feature) and the list goes on.

That being said, listening to קריאת התורה this morning in KJ had me baffled by total disregard for מלעיל & מלרע. I know Chassidim aren't careful with this by Davening, but for קריאת התורה, it doesn't require extra effort. The טעמים are printed wherever one prepares from!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #122 on: November 04, 2024, 10:34:29 PM »

  בא"י המחזיר שינתו לציון


I love this gem. Make sleep great again!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #123 on: November 05, 2024, 12:20:08 AM »
I need to hear kirah again....
I didn't even want to hear her the first time

Offline Alexsei

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #124 on: November 05, 2024, 12:34:11 AM »
The טעמים are printed wherever one prepares from!
This is the key, most weekday readers (and many Shabbos readers in smaller Chasiddish shuls) aren't prepared at all.
We have been unburdened by what has been.

Offline imayid2

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #125 on: November 05, 2024, 10:50:12 AM »
That being said, listening to קריאת התורה this morning in KJ had me baffled by total disregard for מלעיל & מלרע. I know Chassidim aren't careful with this by Davening, but for קריאת התורה, it doesn't require extra effort. The טעמים are printed wherever one prepares from!
Goes with this
Many Chassidim (to be fair others as well) horribly mangle the correct pronunciation of לשון הקודש during תפילה, in particular accenting the wrong syllables in the words.

I’ve heard this was deliberately instituted because of the infatuation of the maskilim with didduk. Anyone know the source for this?

Offline hvaces42

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #126 on: November 05, 2024, 11:31:11 AM »
My entire life I pronounced the word שכחה as Shikcha...as in קשה לשכחה. Only since Ishay Ribo and MBD put out their song אתה זוכר did I realize that the word is Shichecha.
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Offline Alexsei

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #127 on: November 05, 2024, 11:33:26 AM »
My entire life I pronounced the word שכחה as Shikcha...as in קשה לשכחה. Only since Ishay Ribo and MBD put out their song אתה זוכר did I realize that the word is Shichecha.
What's the definition of Shichecha  ?
We have been unburdened by what has been.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #128 on: November 05, 2024, 11:36:35 AM »
What's the definition of Shichecha  ?
Forgetfulness?
or in context...
Because there is no forgetting before your throne.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #129 on: November 05, 2024, 06:02:44 PM »
Israelis are usually the worst. Maybe if they would realize that the language they speak on a daily basis is a DIFFERENT LANGUAGE (despite similarities), there would be hope.

Mixing up שווא, סגול & צירי. Not differentiating or mixing up קמץ & חולם. Alef & Hei (mostly yerushalmi feature) and the list goes on.

That being said, listening to קריאת התורה this morning in KJ had me baffled by total disregard for מלעיל & מלרע. I know Chassidim aren't careful with this by Davening, but for קריאת התורה, it doesn't require extra effort. The טעמים are printed wherever one prepares from!

You’re assuming they prepare with טעמים

ETA: Alexsei beat me to it
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Offline AsherO

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #130 on: November 05, 2024, 06:05:16 PM »
Forgetfulness?
or in context...
Because there is no forgetting before your throne.

In Davening those words I say Shichecha, but when it comes to the mitzvah I say “leket, shikcha, and peah”. Am I saying the latter wrong?

ETA: Yes:


« Last Edit: November 05, 2024, 06:10:36 PM by AsherO »
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #131 on: November 05, 2024, 07:29:06 PM »
In Davening those words I say Shichecha, but when it comes to the mitzvah I say “leket, shikcha, and peah”. Am I saying the latter wrong?

ETA: Yes:



That's how it's said so you aren't wrong. I'd get annoyed hearing leket, shichecha, and peah so please don't start doing that..

Offline ExGingi

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #132 on: November 05, 2024, 07:40:49 PM »
That's how it's said so you aren't wrong. I'd get annoyed hearing leket, shichecha, and peah so please don't start doing that..

Are you a student in @AsherO's classes?

While on the topic, is the שווא in שכחה a שווא נע or שווא נח? (reasoning and proof please). Because if it's שווא נח (as I believe it is) then it's actually closer to Shich'cha (excuse my transliteration @aygart).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline AsherO

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #133 on: November 05, 2024, 08:27:31 PM »
Are you a student in @AsherO's classes?

While on the topic, is the שווא in שכחה a שווא נע or שווא נח? (reasoning and proof please). Because if it's שווא נח (as I believe it is) then it's actually closer to Shich'cha (excuse my transliteration @aygart).

Kehot machzor has ואין שכחה לפני כסא כבודך without an asterisk (so it’s a shva nach)
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #134 on: November 05, 2024, 08:40:39 PM »
Kehot machzor has ואין שכחה לפני כסא כבודך without an asterisk (so it’s a shva nach)

Now practice pronouncing properly. (You can post a recording).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline AsherO

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #135 on: November 05, 2024, 08:54:10 PM »
Now practice pronouncing properly. (You can post a recording).

Hard pass  :-[
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: ודילוגו עלי אהבה - Best עברי mistakes
« Reply #136 on: November 06, 2024, 03:08:49 AM »
Hard pass  :-[

Don't you have Sefardic roots? It shouldn't be that hard.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan