Pogrom In Amsterdam, El Al Adds Emergency Shabbos Flights

[LongTimeLurker]

Hey mods @AsherO, as suits a lot of people who have learned Gemara we're getting wildly off topic and a lot of this thread should be discussed in should hareidim serve in the army thread..

[Chuchum Ainer]

kids that you spent 18 years raising b'kedusha and tahara drafted into the army and throw off their kipa. I had a Chavrusa in Yeshiva who went to the army because he enjoyed the outdoors (we hiked all over E"Y) and went off. I currently have a Bochur I learn with who is being hounded by the army.

You are welcome to move here and want to sit and learn but have all the benifits that you pay for with your hard earned tax money be denied to you because you learn Torah. Every Avrech has this but especially the ones between 18-26 who just got many benefits slashed because they won't serve in the army.

You are welcome to try to live as a practicing Jew in Israel but if you disagree with the policys and actually protest you get physically beaten up by the police and thrown in jail. and then fined. But not if you block the main highway of Tel Aviv every single M. Shabbos... This is well documented.

You are welcome to move here and be vilified and bashed by the mainstream media EVERYWHERE because you are Chareidi. Chareidim spread Corona. Chareidim are bloodsuckers. Chareidim steal our money... I was in Tel Aviv during Corona and had Chilonim slowly back away from we as if he was avoiding the plague.

You are welcome to live in Israel where the government tries to Hijack Yiddishkeit and say that they are the real representatives of Judaism... This is all over as well.

What I was trying to point out in my post was the hypocrisy of the IL government as they show themselves as the saviors of Klal Yisorel while they oppress the religious and actively trample on the Kedusha of Shabbos. I know its hard for an American to understand this, and when i lived there i also actively supported Israel, but this is what is actively going on, especially now with the draft issues.

to clarify, I wasn't saying anything about whether these issues exist or are documented, just wanted your personal experience
thanks

[Chuchum Ainer]

Hey mods @AsherO, as suits a lot of people who have learned Gemara we're getting wildly off topic and a lot of this thread should be discussed in should hareidim serve in the army thread..

A good reflection of the lens many people use when talking about anything to do with the state of Israel..... To everyone's detriment

[AsherO]

It may have been premature to merge these two threads.
1. There’s more rioting goin on in AMS
https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1856092898468524528
Visegrad24 has a bunch more videos/posts about this
2. It seems to be spreading, which is very disconcerting
https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1856086598569341355

[aygart]

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/931019379/geschokte-me-er-over-jodenjacht-ik-herken-me-totaal-niet-in-beeld-dat-maccabi-fans-geweld-uitlokten

https://archive.is/pXFEC

[AsherO]

This is just the tip of the iceberg against who’s behind this:
https://x.com/algemeiner/status/1856034156624417261?s=46

[Definitions2]

@Euclid if you were there (any of the above), would you flee?
Bringing this up in regards to your position about owning a firearm vs fleeing

[Shmuel K]

@Euclid if you were there (any of the above), would you flee?
Bringing this up in regards to your position about owning a firearm vs fleeing

Just curious, any statistics which Jews had higher survival rate in holocaust? The ones who fled or the ones who joined the partisans and got weapons and fought?

[Definitions2]

Just curious, any statistics which Jews had higher survival rate in holocaust? The ones who fled or the ones who joined the partisans and got weapons and fought?

I have none

[Euclid]

@Euclid if you were there (any of the above), would you flee?
Bringing this up in regards to your position about owning a firearm vs fleeing

I have no first hand information of what's going on there. Not going to make a decision (or hypothesize) based on social media posts.

[EliJelly]

I have no first hand information of what's going on there. Not going to make a decision (or hypothesize) based on social media posts.

I'd rather check up with you on the idea of getting a European passport

[Euclid]

I'd rather check up with you on the idea of getting a European passport

1) didnt have another option of a passport/citizenship
2) an EU passport is still valuable even if some of the regions within aren't safe

[aygart]

Anyone who can get to the airport can also get away from Amsterdam and go somewhere safe.

Its not a pogrom that going on. its a one time incident. No one is in danger now. The police are on the case as well...
Why do they need to be flown to Israel anyways? They can drive to a different city...

Neither of these assumptions of facts on the ground seem to be aging well. Not a one time incident and not limited to Amsterdam.

[Sammy82]

Neither of these assumptions of facts on the ground seem to be aging well. Not a one time incident and not limited to Amsterdam.

He knows better 
I repeat, ignore the master troll and hopefully he'll go away.

[Chuchum Ainer]

]

I'll bite

While I'm not going to argue about a psak from two orthodox Rabbonim (confirming both Chief Rabbis signed on it?)

It's hard to not see the rescue flights as a publicity stunt. We can speculate and speculate, and we don't have all the facts, but the impression I got is that if I was that day visiting my friends in Amsterdam, who happen to be Rabbonim, they wouldn't have counseled me to take a Shabbos flight. Israel's new foreign minister and old prime minister have a vested interest in playing up how much antisemitisim there is in the world, and how badly Jews and Israelis are under attack everywhere. They also have a vested interest in telling people how much they do to protect Israelis and Jews.

So, color me skeptical of the rescue flights.

The rioting and attacks can rightly be called a pogrom though. And are concerning.

My layman outsider's opinion.

And all this has zero to do with whether the state keeps shabbos or has an agenda against parve cholents.

[imayid2]

He knows better 
I repeat, ignore the master troll and hopefully he'll go away.

You don’t need to hope. If there is someone who is unbearably offensive for your personal preference you can utilize the helpful “ignore” feature.

[yuneeq]

It's hard to not see the rescue flights as a publicity stunt. We can speculate and speculate, and we don't have all the facts, but the impression I got is that if I was that day visiting my friends in Amsterdam, who happen to be Rabbonim, they wouldn't have counseled me to take a Shabbos flight. .

How about apples to apples. You’re traveling with a group of friends to Amsterdam for vacation and visiting Jewish sites, and secretly get followed for days, culminating in a brutal attack by Hamas uber drivers. You also get followed back to your hotel. Your rov would say you should stay put? Take an uber to next city over?

Would love for you to actually ask him.

[Moshe Green]

Neither of these assumptions of facts on the ground seem to be aging well. Not a one time incident and not limited to Amsterdam.

Fake news.

The Jewish community in Amsterdam has been living peacefully for years.

It's a continuation of the victim card that the secular Zionists love to play. "Pity us because we are under attack". But they instigate the violence to be done. I'm not saying that because someone rips down your flag that its ok to run him over, but the one who ripped down the flag on foreign soil cannot claim victim.

As bad as the attack was, and the perpetrators should be prosecuted, this whole thing is being blown up to create an image of "poor israel" 
Lets not think anything else.

[PlatinumGuy]

Fake news.

The Jewish community in Amsterdam has been living peacefully for years.

It's a continuation of the victim card that the secular Zionists love to play. "Pity us because we are under attack". But they instigate the violence to be done. I'm not saying that because someone rips down your flag that its ok to run him over, but the one who ripped down the flag on foreign soil cannot claim victim.

As bad as the attack was, and the perpetrators should be prosecuted, this whole thing is being blown up to create an image of "poor israel" 
Lets not think anything else.

Most of the people who thought like you perished when they didn't leave Europe in time.

[Moshe Green]

Most of the people who thought like you perished when they didn't leave Europe in time.

Yes, there are those who say such things.

"If only we would have all made Aliya everyone could have been saved."
Besides for the Apikorsus involved in such a statement there is also the basic historical facts that get in the way. Mainly that Rommel almost entered Palestine and slaughtered all the Jews of EY. Again, if it wasn't Yad Hashem that prevented him from having the tanks, fuel, and manpower to conquer the British troops the "smart ones" who ran away and made Aliya would have been killed as well.

When we keep the Torah properly Hashem takes care of us, when we don't act properly and we trust on Tzahal instead, Hashem sends the anti-Semites to wake us up.