Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 141824 times)

Offline AsherO

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #135 on: February 07, 2012, 11:51:24 AM »
Even if R' Shach ZATZAL will be moshiach?

Was R' Shach a kohen?

Why are all lubavitchers always connecting e/t to moshiach?

 כל ימי חייך להביא לימות המשיח

:P
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Offline moish

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #136 on: February 07, 2012, 12:10:13 PM »
כל ימי חייך להביא לימות המשיח

:P
i hope you put that smiling face in because thats completely out of context

Offline AsherO

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #137 on: February 07, 2012, 12:29:43 PM »
i hope you put that smiling face in because thats completely out of context

Exactly. Of course I know it's out of context, but a great chassidishe pshat nevertheless.

Literally it means the opposite, that even when Moshiach comes we'll remember the exodus from Egypt.
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Offline mclovin

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #138 on: February 07, 2012, 01:46:32 PM »
Was R' Shach a kohen?
thats completely missing the point. lets say he was a kohen, would chabad accept him? im sure some would (like dan) but for sure many wont, like cbs

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #139 on: February 07, 2012, 01:47:47 PM »
thats completely missing the point. lets say he was a kohen, would chabad accept him? im sure some would (like dan) but for sure many wont, like cbs
Why not let cbs speak for himself?
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #140 on: February 07, 2012, 01:48:00 PM »
thats completely missing the point. lets say he was a kohen, would chabad accept him? im sure some would (like dan) but for sure many wont, like cbs

It's not. If he's a kohen then he definitely isn't from the descendants of King David, in which case the discussion is moot. Again:

Now that's just ignorance...
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #141 on: February 07, 2012, 01:49:17 PM »
Amazing poem please read.

"Mashiach's Hat"

T'was the night of the geulah, and in every single shteibel, sounds of Torah could be heard, coming from every kind of Yeidel.

This one in English, some in Hebrew, some in Yiddish, some saying pshat, and some saying chiddush.

And up in shomayim, the Aibishter decreed, "The time has come for My children to be freed.

Rouse the Mashiach from his heavenly berth, have him get in his chariot and head down to Earth."

The Moshiach got dressed, and with a heart full of glee, went down to the Earth, and entered the first shteibel he did see.

"I'm the Moshiach, Hashem has heard your plea, your geulah has come, it is time to go free!"

They all stopped their learning, this was quite a surprise, And they looked at him carefully with piercing sharp eyes.

"He's not the Mashiach!" said one with a grin, "Just look at his hat, at the pinches and brim!"

"That's right!", cried another with a grimace and a frown, "Whoever heard of Mashiach with a brim that is down?!"

"Well", thought Mashiach, "If that is the rule, I'll turn my brim up before I go to the next shule!"

So he walked on right over to the next shule in town, confident to be accepted since his brim was no longer down.

"I'm the Mashiach!", he cried as he began to enter. But the Jews there wanted to know first, if he was left, right, or center.

"Your clothes are so black!" they cried out in a fright. "You can't be Mashiach --you're much too far right!

If you want to be Mashiach, you must be properly outfitted." So they replaced his black hat with a kipa that was knitted.

Wearing his new kipa, Mashiach went out and he said, "No difference to me what I wear on my head."

So he went to the next shule, for his mission was dear, But he was getting a bit frustrated with the Yidden down here.

"I'm the Mashiach!" he cried, and they all stopped to stare. And a complete eerie stillness filled up the air.

"You're the Mashiach?! Just imagine that. Whoever heard of Mashiach without a black hat?!"

"But I do have a hat!" the Mashiach then said. So he pulled it right out and plunked it down on his head.

Then the Shule started laughing, and one said, "Where's your kop? You can't have Mashiach with a brim that is up!

If you want to be Mashiach, and be accepted in this town, put some pinches in your hat, and turn that brim down!"

Mashiach walked out and said, "I guess my time hasn't really come, I'll just have to return to where I came from.

So he went to his chariot, but as he began to enter, all sorts of Jews appeared, from left, right, and center.

"Please wait, do not leave, it's all THEIR fault!" they said And they pointed to each other, and to what was on each other's head.

Mashiach just looked sad, and said, "You don't understand." And then started up his chariot to get out of this land.

"Yes, it's very wonderful, that all of you learn Torah, But you seem to have forgotten, a crucial part of our mesorah."

"What does he mean? What's he talking about?" And they all looked bewildered, and all began to shout.

Mashiach looked back and answered, "The first place to start, is to shut up your mouths, and open up your heart.

To each of you, certain Yidden seem too frum or too frei but ALL Yidden are beloved, in the Aibeshter's eye."

And on his way up he shouted, "If you want me to come, try working a little harder on some ahavas chinam."

By Rabbi Yitzchok Feigenbaum The principal of a beis yaakov school :)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 02:09:50 PM by jj1000 »
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #142 on: February 07, 2012, 01:49:50 PM »
It's not. If he's a kohen then he definitely isn't from the descendants of King David, in which case the discussion is moot.
In can be moot, but the question can still be asked in inyan geredt.
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Offline mclovin

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #143 on: February 07, 2012, 01:51:34 PM »
It's not. If he's a kohen then he definitely isn't from the descendants of King David, in which case the discussion is moot. Again:
he was not a kohen
Why not let cbs speak for himself?
i think he already did when he called him a rasha which besides for being quite a stupid and assur thing to say was hypocritical

Offline AsherO

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #144 on: February 07, 2012, 01:51:55 PM »
In can be moot, but the question can still be asked in inyan geredt.

Inyan geredt, Moshiach is more than just a person, but we already said that.
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Offline mclovin

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #145 on: February 07, 2012, 01:58:07 PM »
It's not. If he's a kohen then he definitely isn't from the descendants of King David, in which case the discussion is moot. Again:

Now that's just ignorance...
and like yesterday i admit to ignorance on the laws of mashiach and i still dont care bec your answer yesterday and today just avoid the point of the question

Offline jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #146 on: February 07, 2012, 02:07:58 PM »
and like yesterday i admit to ignorance on the laws of mashiach and i still dont care bec your answer yesterday and today just avoid the point of the question
And like yesterday your question (about someones personal hergesh, which I am not sure why you care about) was already answered.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #147 on: February 07, 2012, 02:12:44 PM »
and like yesterday i admit to ignorance on the laws of mashiach and i still dont care bec your answer yesterday and today just avoid the point of the question

1. The point of the question is whether we'll accept R' Shach as moshiach? That wasn't the OP's question.
2. We can't discuss who is (potentially) moshiach before we defined what he (and the concept) is, zil gmor.

The answer to the question about Shach appearing as Moshiach was answered by Dan, and I share his sentiments. If you want to know Cbs' take on the matter, ask him directly to address the question. If you feel there was a part of the question that wasn't answered, clarify what that is and people could address that.
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Offline mclovin

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #148 on: February 07, 2012, 02:14:31 PM »
And like yesterday your question (about someones personal hergesh, which I am not sure why you care about) was already answered.
i am not asking about someones personal hergsh, and the question was not answered by that bec that is only a reason to want him to be mashiach not to think that he is

Offline WhyAich

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Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #149 on: February 07, 2012, 02:16:58 PM »
This is crazy. Everyone can believe whoever he wants to be as moshiach. In general it says in Gemara that each sect believes his rebbe is moshiach. It's a clear gemara. The students of x believed he was moshiach, the students of y believed he was moshiach etc.
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