Messianism among Lubavitch

[Dan]

I'm not a chossid, but this statement is astounding to me.  There's ten or 20 major rebbes and hundreds of minor rebbes, and how could each chossid think their rebbe is the objective nosi/manhig hador and all the the other chassidim are wrong?

Litvaks don't believe their rosh yeshiva or rov is the nosi/manhig hador, unless they're weirdos. 

This was one of the majot tainos tainos against chasidus.
Nothing new under the sun.

[Baruch]

1. I and most Lubavitchers say "could be" about the Lubavitcher Rebbe, so how in the world does that mean nothing?!?
2. Ask the 2 part question. Do you regard your Rebbe as the Manhig/Nosi Hador? Is the Manhig/Nosi Hador the Moshiach Hador?
Most Chasidim don't koch in Moshiach and likely don't think in those terms off the bat. It doesn't matter to them, but the logical reasoning leads to that.

When the Rebbe was alive, Lubavitchers didn't say "could be".

And your first point and second point are a stira minei ubei, why is it "could be" if  he's the nasi hador which is the mashiach of the dor.

[ExGingi]

Unfortunately Most Yidden Chasidim don't koch in Moshiach and likely don't think in those terms off the bat. It doesn't matter to them, but the logical reasoning leads to that.

FTFY

[mgarfin]

Just to clarify this on of the 3 viznitz and the smallest one

[Baruch]

I'm not a chossid, but this statement is astounding to me.  There's ten or 20 major rebbes and hundreds of minor rebbes, and how could each chossid think their rebbe is the objective nosi/manhig hador and all the the other chassidim are wrong?

Litvaks don't believe their rosh yeshiva or rov is the nosi/manhig hador, unless they're weirdos.

And the whole idea, that each Chasiddus can believe that their Rebbe is Moshiach (even though there's only 1 Moshiach [ben david]), reminds me of when Cee Lo Green's changed the words of 'Imagine' from "and no religion too", to "and all religions true".

[churnbabychurn]

The whole concept of "nosi hador" is an invention. It makes no sense and is misleading. Wholly unesessary term.

[ExGingi]

When the Rebbe was alive, Lubavitchers didn't say "could be".

And your first sentence and second sentence are a stira minei ubei, why is it "could be" if  he's the nasi hador which is the mashiach of the dor.

+1.5

[Dan]

Just to clarify this on of the 3 viznitz and the smallest one

And the other viznitz don't believe their Rebbe is the manhig/nosi hador?

[jj1000]

1. I and most Lubavitchers say "could be" about the Lubavitcher Rebbe, so how in the world does that mean nothing?!?
2. Ask the 2 part question. Do you regard your Rebbe as the Manhig/Nosi Hador? Is the Manhig/Nosi Hador the Moshiach Hador?
Most Chasidim don't koch in Moshiach and likely don't think in those terms off the bat. It doesn't matter to them, but the logical reasoning leads to that.

Honestly I don't think a survey about this subject would work. For many people this is a deeply personal thing and while they may believe it in their heart they don't talk about it in public. As is the case with many Lubavitchers.

[Dan]

When the Rebbe was alive, Lubavitchers didn't say "could be".

And your first point and second point are a stira minei ubei, why is it "could be" if  he's the nasi hador which is the mashiach of the dor.

The obvious question is how to define dor. Will there be yellow flaggers in 60 years from now?

[Baruch]

This was one of the majot tainos tainos against chasidus.
Nothing new under the sun.

Huh? I read up extensively on the machlokes between Misnagdim and Chassidim, and I never once saw mention of this issue. Please elaborate. I may be misunderstanding you.

[Dan]

Honestly I don't think a survey about this subject would work. For many people this is a deeply personal thing and while they may believe it in their heart they don't talk about it in public. As is the case with many Lubavitchers.

True.

While Baruch can say he was quoted "Shittisim", I've heard from other people that there are many from that sect that most certainly do believe that.
Whether they'll freely admit that to an outsider is another story though.

[henche]

Ah, I have a question.

Doesn't every dor have a nosi/manhig hador? 

[Baruch]

The obvious question is how to define dor. Will there be yellow flaggers in 60 years from now?

If the reason why you say "could be" is because you have a safeik how to define dor, then why did you say that if someone says "could be" on his live Rebbe he would be the same as the Lubavitch shita? That reasoning is so un"Dan"like. I would appreciate some intellectual honesty.

[churnbabychurn]

And the other viznitz don't believe their Rebbe is the manhig/nosi hador?

Noone but chabbad use term nosi hador.

Words matter. This term was coined to induce some kind of dynastic royalty attributed to the last couple of leaders.

No chassidim use this anywhere near in an extreme way as chabbad.