Messianism among Lubavitch

[imayid2]

AM?

Anti-Meshichist

[Dan]

Another thing that gets people nervous: Infallibility.

My impression was is that the Rebbe is infallible isn’t limited to meshichists, CMIIW. Being fallible is part of being mortal.

Perhaps this isn’t specific to Lubavitch, it can be an issue by other groups, even litvish by the extreme “Daas Torah” types. But my impression is that it’s more of a devolved idea by Lubavitchers.

I think that's common among any devoted chosid to their Rebbe and part of what helps connect them to G-d. A tzadik gommur of the Tanya is someone that has no yetzer hara and not only never sinned, but can't sin.

And yes, Daas Torah types to their leaders/tzadikim as well.

[imayid2]

I think that's common among any devoted chosid to their Rebbe and part of what helps connect them to G-d. A tzadik of the Tanya is someone that has no yetzer hara and not only never sinned, but can't sin.

And yes, Daas Torah types to their leaders/tzadikim as well.

Personally I don’t believe in this at all
אין צדיק בארץ אשר יעשה טוב ולא יחטא

I’d be curious to see a source על דרך זה in a non Lubavitch sefer. Find it hard to believe that others believe that way about their leaders.

I suppose you’ll say that they believe it even if they don’t say it.

[gutlib]

I think that's common among any devoted chosid to their Rebbe and part of what helps connect them to G-d. A tzadik gommur of the Tanya is someone that has no yetzer hara and not only never sinned, but can't sin.

And yes, Daas Torah types to their leaders/tzadikim as well.

Nowadays people prefer to believe only in dead Rebbeis, it doesn't demand anything.

[imayid2]

Nowadays people prefer to believe only in dead Rebbeis, it doesn't demand anything.

Ridiculous to say this about Lubavitch as they work very hard in fulfilling the Rebbes directives.

[gutlib]

Personally I don’t believe in this at all
אין צדיק בארץ אשר יעשה טוב ולא יחטא

Its not the way you should write.
i have nothing to do with Chabad, but you cant say I don’t believe in this at all On the Ball Hatnya, its learned all over. (I heard once that they found a Tanya in Harv Shteinman's home after he passed away.)

[imayid2]

Its not the way you should write.
i have nothing to do with Chabad, but you cant say I don’t believe in this at all On the Ball Hatnya, its learned all over. (I heard once that they found a Tanya in Harv Shteinman's home after he passed away.)

Not following how the Baal hatanya being learned all over should make me think tzaddikim are infallible

[gutlib]

Ridiculous to say this about Lubavitch as they work very hard in fulfilling the Rebbes directives.

I didn't mean it in that direction, it's no problem but you also need someone alive, to guide you with today's challenges.

[Dan]

Not following how the Baal hatanya being learned all over should make me think tzaddikim are infallible

Not all tzaddikim, a tzadik gomur of the Tanya is extremely rare!

Nearly all tzaddikim are either a tzadik sheaino gomur or a beinoni of the Tanya, both of which are very lofty levels, but are certainly not infallable.

For reference, Rabbah thought he was a beinoni, as defined in the Tanya.

[jj1000]

I didn't mean it in that direction, it's no problem but you also need someone alive, to guide you with today's challenges.

The Rebbe pushed asei licha rav to get a mashpia for everyone. And The Rebbe wasn't talking about himself.

[gutlib]

Not following how the Baal hatanya being learned all over should make me think tzaddikim are infallible

you can ask questions, but there is a way how to ask. (the Rashah and the Chacham in the Haggadah also ask the same question but the difference is how you ask it)

[imayid2]

you can ask questions, but there is a way how to ask. (the Rashah and the Chacham in the Haggadah also ask the same question but the difference is how you ask it)

Not sure what you mean, I have no question about this.

[imayid2]

Not all tzaddikim, a tzadik gomur of the Tanya is extremely rare!

Nearly all tzaddikim are either a tzadik sheaino gomur or a beinoni of the Tanya, both of which are very lofty levels, but are certainly not infallable.

For reference, Rabbah thought he was a beinoni, as defined in the Tanya.

Does the Tanya say a tzaddik Gamur is infallible?

Do other groups claim their leader is a tzaddik gamur?

Do Lubavitchers maintain that every Lubavitcher Rebbe was a tzaddik gamur?

[AsherO]

Perhaps this isn’t specific to Lubavitch, it can be an issue by other groups, even litvish by the extreme “Daas Torah” types. But my impression is that it’s more of a devolved idea by Lubavitchers.

devolved as a personal attack

[imayid2]

Ouch
טעות סופר
*developed

[gutlib]

Not sure what you mean, I have no question about this.

Personally, I don’t believe in this at all

I think it's the wrong way to ask like this.

[imayid2]

 
I think it's the wrong way to ask like this.

That’s because you think it’s a question, no idea why you do, doesn’t sound like it to me at all.

Anyone else think so? (This is a question as indicated by a question mark)

[aygart]

Correct, that hachtaras hamelech requires the declaration and spread of that message.

To an outsider this sounds like I shouldn’t break the email chain.

[Dan]

To an outsider this sounds like I shouldn’t break the email chain.

It sounds that way to Antis as well. The Rebbe was clearly against it before his stroke as well.

There are also meshechistim who for example, may say yechi after davening, but might not spread that message other than that.

[aygart]

Ridiculous to say this about Lubavitch as they work very hard in fulfilling the Rebbes directives.

Just keep in mind my FIL A"h words: אלע שרייען רבי און מיינען זיך.