Messianism among Lubavitch

[whacked1]

This is the slope. And how it begins...

How what begins?

[TheAsh]

I understand that many Chassidishe ideas make litvaks feel weird. Weird, even wrong, =/=  AZ, we have a shulchan aruch for that.

If your gadol said 'don't treat their seforim' that would add up (though I would disagree). But how to get from there to 'don't drink their wine' is a leap worthy of a chassid

I specifically said what would qualify as Avoda Zara. Davening to the Rebbe not by his graveside. Believing he hears you and knows what you are thinking at all times. Believing the Rebbe cannot make mistakes because he is עצמות בגוף. That would qualify as עז.

Furthermore, let's compare some extreme Chabad beliefs to Messianic Jews, lehavdil.

Both believe that their leader was messiah.
Both believe we need to keep the mitzvos.
Both believe that their leader was different than other leaders because he was divinity personified.
Both believe that the primary reason Messiah hasn't come is not due to mitzvos nor aveiros but simply because not everyone accepted their leaders kingship yet.
Both believe in a second coming.
Both believe one can pray to their leader at all times and their leader will answer them and that their leader knows what they are thinking whenever wherever.

I am certain that.most chabad does not believe this. But there are those who do, and when a litvak calls it out, it is not hate but a legitimate concern.

[jj1000]

How what begins?

The slippery slope over 300 years to believing your gadol is moshiach. Same reason the Gra opposed chassidim to begin with, so I was told.

[TheAsh]

The slippery slope over 300 years to believing your gadol is moshiach. Same reason the Gra opposed chassidim to begin with, so I was told.

It's a pretty poor slope, considering that Chabad is the only chassidus out of hundreds to do so.

[jj1000]

It's a pretty poor slope, considering that Chabad is the only chassidus out of hundreds to do so.

False if you read the whole thread. And also was a boich svara made up hundreds of years after the first arguments against chassidus was made, that people are now attributing to what the fight once was.

[jj1000]

So many hours were spent in this thread answering in Halacha all the concerns of what is or isn't in the confines of Halacha. And how Chabad is clearly 100% within the confines of halacha. And also how there are extremes that are not, same as any group and it's not a reflection on Chabad, but rather that crazy people exist.

I am BH in a much busier time in my life and won't be posting here anymore BLN.

(If I was in the middle of talking to someone and you want to DM me, please do, especially @avromie7 I wasn't clear on what was missing, but I think I may have clarified some things for you.)

@TheAsh I give you a bracha to fight the good fight and put as much time into thinking of svaras for why one group may or may not be going against halacha as you do for the millions of yidden that don't live with halacha at all right now, and you dedicate your passion and life to one of helping yidden come closer to yidishkeit and not chv pushing other yidden away from it.

@whacked1 Nothing but love, but my point is, even someone you respect can be biased and if this is something that truly make a difference in your life, you can look into it much more if you choose to, some books were posted up thread IIRC by Rabbi Rappaport going more into detail than was done here.

Wishing everyone much love and with prayers for Moshiach soon.

( @Dan lock it whenever you want.)

[Dan]

FTFM.

Agreed. Not seeing anything productive coming out of this or any minds being changed.