Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 210062 times)

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #520 on: January 15, 2013, 09:10:34 PM »
How egotistical one must be, to presume they know the thoughts of an entire sect.
Newsflash: Nobody thinks that only he can be moshiach or that he must be moshiach to the exclusion of anyone else.  100% of lubavitchers would accept anyone revealed to be moshiach as I've said many times.
that's a flat out lie. I've spoken to many lubavitchers who believe tht only he can be moshiach. And gave me the bechezkas moshiach BS, saying he was lochem milchamos, and screwing up a Rambam, stop lying.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #521 on: January 15, 2013, 09:12:45 PM »
that's a flat out lie. I've spoken to many lubavitchers who believe tht only he can be moshiach. And gave me the bechezkas moshiach BS, saying he was lochem milchamos, and screwing up a Rambam, stop lying.
Those are the wackos, that's not mainstream thought.  Find me a non-Israeli shliach that says that.
Or better yet ask those people what would happen if someone else was revealed to be moshiach.

But nice way to castigate hundreds of thousands of fellow jews without even a thought of being dan l'kaf zchus.
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #522 on: January 15, 2013, 09:16:10 PM »
Those are the wackos, that's not mainstream thought.  Find me a non-Israeli shliach that says that.
Or better yet ask those people what would happen if someone else was revealed to be moshiach.
The whole Chabad believed he was moshiach when the rebbe was alive, with the cheshbon that the 7th chabadsker rebbe is moshiach, and he's the nasi hador. Lately it's kept inside the heart. I think that's an egotistical sect. I'm sorry. It doesn't make you egotisitcal, I have nothing against you, it makes your sect's ideology egotistical.

Do you mind that I'm telling you my true feelings, I could hold back my real feelings, like i've been doing till now on this thread, and many others are still doing, and i may start doing again.
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Offline sky121

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Re: Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #523 on: January 15, 2013, 09:17:29 PM »
  Find me a non-Israeli shliach that says that.


Are there more Israelis that think like that?
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #524 on: January 15, 2013, 09:20:38 PM »
Those are the wackos, that's not mainstream thought.  Find me a non-Israeli shliach that says that.
Or better yet ask those people what would happen if someone else was revealed to be moshiach.

But nice way to castigate hundreds of thousands of fellow jews without even a thought of being dan l'kaf zchus.
I walked around Crown heights when i was young, about 15 years ago, shmoozing with tens and tens of people, walking into dozens of random sukkahs, and EVERY SINGLE PERSON TOLD ME THIS!!! Stop with your revisionist history. You couldn't find a chabadske in the NY or Israel that didn't say these things, I've shmoozed with enough lubavitchers to know that it wasn't just a minority.
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Offline sky121

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Re: Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #525 on: January 15, 2013, 09:25:12 PM »
I walkes around Crown heights when i was young, about 15 years ago, shmoozing with tens and tens of people, walking into dozens of random sukkahs, and EVERY SINGLE PERSON TOLD ME THIS!!! Stop with your revisionist history.

Even if that's true, and it very well might be,  if you're not educated enough on the topic I think you may be better off listening than ranting. You're trying to convince a bunch of Chabadniks of what they believe when they are sitting here telling you the opposite.


I've met plenty of people who also were over obsessed with the Rebbe and also believed he was Moshiach.  And I still know enough to know that that is not the basis of Chabad. And there are PLENTY who don't think like that at all.

It seems like you're so set on believing what you want to believe so you can hold on to your "disgust" and feelings toward Chabad etc.

I won't deny there are Chabad wackos but why focus on them?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 09:29:38 PM by sky121 »
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #526 on: January 15, 2013, 09:28:34 PM »
Even if that's true, and it very well might be,  if you're not educated enough on the topic I think you may be better off listening than ranting. You're trying to convince a bunch of Chabadniks of what they believe when they are sitting here telling you the opposite.


I've met plenty of people who also were over obsessed with the Rebbe and also believed he was Moshiach.  And I still know enough to know that that is not the basis of Chabad. And there are PLENTY who don't think like that at all.
when they are sitting here and spinning the opposite. FTFY. It's not true, it's backtracking, thats all it is.
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Offline WhyAich

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Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #527 on: January 15, 2013, 09:30:16 PM »
How egotistical does a sect have to be, to think that only their Rebbe can be Moshiach, and if their Rebbe has no son, then he must be moshiach.

#juststatingtheobvious

It's actually a Gemara (cannot remember where but if soooo imp. PM me and ill find out)

Gemara goes Something like this:
Rabbi x's students believed he was moahiach and rabbi y's students believed he was moahiach.
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #528 on: January 15, 2013, 09:30:38 PM »
Even if that's true, and it very well might be,  if you're not educated enough on the topic I think you may be better off listening than ranting. You're trying to convince a bunch of Chabadniks of what they believe when they are sitting here telling you the opposite.


I've met plenty of people who also were over obsessed with the Rebbe and also believed he was Moshiach.  And I still know enough to know that that is not the basis of Chabad. And there are PLENTY who don't think like that at all.

It seems like you're so set on believing what you want to believe so you can hold on to your "disgust" and feelings toward Chabad etc.

I won't dent there are Chabad wackos but why focus on them?
I don't have a disgust for chabad. I am moche bechol hatokef, that's simply untrue.
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Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #529 on: January 15, 2013, 09:32:10 PM »
hold back my real feelings,  start doing that again.

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #530 on: January 15, 2013, 09:32:41 PM »
It's actually a Gemara (cannot remember where but if soooo imp. PM me and ill find out)

Gemara goes Something like this:
Rabbi x's students believed he was moahiach and rabbi y's students believed he was moahiach.
not because they believed that the 7th rosh yeshiva of their yeshiva had to be moshiach. There's a big difference.
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #531 on: January 15, 2013, 09:33:26 PM »
hold back my real feelings,  start doing that again.

maybe i should. but i just had enough of all the spin.
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Offline sky121

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #532 on: January 15, 2013, 09:35:29 PM »
This thread just reminds me why Mashiach isn't here yet.

All the judging, the hate. The lack of feeling connected as one nation.
And most importantly the ignorance every sect has for one another.
:-\



The lack of proper attitude of wanting to learn and understand and respect each other.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline WhyAich

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Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #533 on: January 15, 2013, 09:35:44 PM »
not because they believed that the 7th rosh yeshiva of their yeshiva had to be moshiach. There's a big difference.
Your point??

It's not based on that. It's based on the rebbe of each person being qualified for the position.

The 7th is not connected to this point specifically.

So now please answer the question (that I didn't state explicitly).

You stated that believing your rebbe is moahiach is egotistical. You're being proven wrong by a clear Gemara. Do you retract your statement or not, and why?
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #534 on: January 15, 2013, 09:38:00 PM »
Your point??

It's not based on that. It's based on the rebbe of each person being qualified for the position.

The 7th is not connected to this point specifically.

So now please answer the question (that I didn't state explicitly).

You stated that believing your rebbe is moahiach is egotistical. You're being proven wrong by a clear Gemara. Do you retract your statement or not, and why?
Believing that your rebbe is moshiach because he's your rebbe is egotistical, believing your rebbe happens to be moshiach is not egotistical.
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Offline WhyAich

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Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #535 on: January 15, 2013, 09:40:35 PM »
Believing that your rebbe is moshiach because he's your rebbe is egotistical, believing your rebbe happens to be moshiach is not egotistical.

I explained that each ones rebbe was qualified. So are you saying that the Lubavitcher Rebbe wasn't qualified or are you saying that were not egotistical?
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Offline sky121

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #536 on: January 15, 2013, 09:41:29 PM »
I feel like when you delve deep down most of this has little to do with Religion and beliefs and more to do with ignorance and the hard time people have accepting anything that is different from what they know or how they were raised or what they were taught.

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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #537 on: January 15, 2013, 09:42:13 PM »
I walked around Crown heights when i was young, about 15 years ago, shmoozing with tens and tens of people, walking into dozens of random sukkahs, and EVERY SINGLE PERSON TOLD ME THIS!!! Stop with your revisionist history. You couldn't find a chabadske in the NY or Israel that didn't say these things, I've shmoozed with enough lubavitchers to know that it wasn't just a minority.
I've been in chabad yeshivos for 8 years, including both mishichist and anti-meshichist yeshivas.
Not once did I hear this business you're saying that the Rebbe had to be moshiach from any teachers or friends. Not once.
Maybe before Gimmel Tamuz, but not now. Except by the wackos who are a tiny minority.
 
I'm not denying that we'd love to have the Rebbe as moshiach, but that he has to be moshiach?
You are dead wrong.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #538 on: January 15, 2013, 09:45:35 PM »
This thread just reminds me why Mashiach isn't here yet.

All the judging, the hate. The lack of feeling connected as one nation.
And most importantly the ignorance every sect has for one another.
:-\



The lack of proper attitude of wanting to learn and understand and respect each other.

I feel like when you delve deep down most of this has little to do with Religion and beliefs and more to do with ignorance and the hard time people have accepting anything that is different from what they know or how they were raised or what they were taught.


Like! This whole thread has doubtfully changed one persons opinion on either side.
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Offline WhyAich

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Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #539 on: January 15, 2013, 09:48:07 PM »
Like! This whole thread has doubtfully changed one persons opinion on either side.
Can be it did, just Maybe for the worse...
Poll time? :)
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