Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 148309 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #870 on: February 04, 2015, 05:06:52 PM »
And there are even be DDFers who are alive today and who found their shidduchim due to answers found in igros...
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #871 on: February 04, 2015, 05:10:30 PM »
And there are even be DDFers who are alive today and who found their shidduchim due to answers found in igros...
I believe that's more in line of what MeirS said about asking from a Brachah. Just like the many DDFers who went to the Ohel to get engaged...
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline lybbtthl

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #872 on: February 04, 2015, 06:31:04 PM »
Just curious are there any chabadskers around here who ask the rebbe questions through the book?

And how exactly does it work

The practice I believe dates back over 200 years ago, when chassidim were too far away from Lubavitch, they'd write their letter and insert it at random into the pages of the Rebbe's Torah.

Nowaday's the yellow flaggers try to push this practice on others, I don't believe that's necessary, but if someone was to ask me how one can obtain the Rebbe's advise or bracha, I would suggest this method, I have personal stories, and know hundreds of stories that happened to people I know. No one can deny it works and it's definitely miraculous, Igros Kodesh contains tens of thousands of letters the Rebbe wrote on all topics, do you think it's a coincidence that one who writes about a certain issue, randomly opened a random volume of Igros and the letter on that page discussed exactly what he was writing about? this exact scenario has played out 1000's of times

Offline lybbtthl

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #873 on: February 04, 2015, 06:34:46 PM »
It's also easier to flat out, blanketly, denounce a whole group of people whose ideology you disagree with than to recognize what they are doing right. :)

It just happens to be, that generally speaking, the "flaggers" are amongst the most dedicated to learning and mivtzoim and "the Rebbe's inyonim" in general. Of course there are exceptions, but if you look at the average "flagger" bochur you'll find that to be the case.

I have plenty of problems with them and what they do, but I can also recognize what they do right.

I happen to agree with what you say, people tend to write off the tzfatim very quickly, I'm definitely no fan of them, but they have a very sincere ibergegebenkeit to the Rebbe and his mivtzoim. They definitely cross lines from time to time, like when fighting with someone who stepped into their path they made for the Rebbe, if they believe the Rebbe is physically walking that path as we speak, would they dare raise their hand on a fellow Jew right in front of the Rebbe? any chossid became completely botul (if only for a few seconds) when directly in front of the Rebbe

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #874 on: February 04, 2015, 06:35:20 PM »

The practice I believe dates back over 200 years ago, when chassidim were too far away from Lubavitch, they'd write their letter and insert it at random into the pages of the Rebbe's Torah.

Nowaday's the yellow flaggers try to push this practice on others, I don't believe that's necessary, but if someone was to ask me how one can obtain the Rebbe's advise or bracha, I would suggest this method, I have personal stories, and know hundreds of stories that happened to people I know. No one can deny it works and it's definitely miraculous, Igros Kodesh contains tens of thousands of letters the Rebbe wrote on all topics, do you think it's a coincidence that one who writes about a certain issue, randomly opened a random volume of Igros and the letter on that page discussed exactly what he was writing about? this exact scenario has played out 1000's of times
the igros is one book?

Offline lybbtthl

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #875 on: February 04, 2015, 06:36:38 PM »
the igros is one book?
no, approx 30 volumes


Offline efflpetzel

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #876 on: February 04, 2015, 06:37:14 PM »
So how does that work?

Offline lybbtthl

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #877 on: February 04, 2015, 06:41:26 PM »
To simplify the whole thing, it's like this:

There are 3 groups within the Lubavitch.

1) The Meshichistin. They make up about 1%
2) The Anti Meshichistin. They make up another 1%.
3) The other 98% are the "I Don't Give a Shistim."

/my contribution to deep ideological conversations/flame-wars.

besides for what I wrote about no groups, rather a spectrum, i still think your numbers are way off.
I also think that the middle group is the worst, as a Lubavitcher you should be serious about such an inyan, regardless which way your inclined to, it should be important to you, and taking the attitude of don't give a shist, is a kaltkeit, indifference, which is the opposite of what Chabad is about. If you're a real chossid, this should be a matter of concern. I'm not saying you need to become a fanatic, but you need to have your own opinion sorted out in your head, regardless of what you show to others.

Offline lybbtthl

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #878 on: February 04, 2015, 06:46:10 PM »
So how does that work?

When one wants to write a letter to the Rebbe, be it a bakasha for a bracha, a Pan (pidyan nefesh typically written on Erev R"H or your birthday) or a Duch (din vecheshbon, writing to the Rebbe about your achievements in a certain period or area) a chossid would prepare himself properly and take the moment very seriously. There are many preps that different people do, it's based your own hergeshim and discussions with your own mashpia. After writing the letter, randomly select a volume of Igros (or any other Sefer of the Rebbe's Torah, Igros has become the norm now since it is the most practical way to get a clear answer) and insert your letter into a random page. Afterwards, sit down and learn the letter and see what the Rebbe is discussing, and most of the time you should discuss the letter with your mashpia, you shouldn't rely on your own deductions.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #879 on: February 04, 2015, 06:48:51 PM »
besides for what I wrote about no groups, rather a spectrum, i still think your numbers are way off.
I also think that the middle group is the worst, as a Lubavitcher you should be serious about such an inyan, regardless which way your inclined to, it should be important to you, and taking the attitude of don't give a shist, is a kaltkeit, indifference, which is the opposite of what Chabad is about. If you're a real chossid, this should be a matter of concern. I'm not saying you need to become a fanatic, but you need to have your own opinion sorted out in your head, regardless of what you show to others.
As I mentioned upthread, I don't believe that group number 3 exists as a group within Chabad...
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #880 on: February 04, 2015, 06:49:41 PM »
When one wants to write a letter to the Rebbe, be it a bakasha for a bracha, a Pan (pidyan nefesh typically written on Erev R"H or your birthday) or a Duch (din vecheshbon, writing to the Rebbe about your achievements in a certain period or area) a chossid would prepare himself properly and take the moment very seriously. There are many preps that different people do, it's based your own hergeshim and discussions with your own mashpia. After writing the letter, randomly select a volume of Igros (or any other Sefer of the Rebbe's Torah, Igros has become the norm now since it is the most practical way to get a clear answer) and insert your letter into a random page. Afterwards, sit down and learn the letter and see what the Rebbe is discussing, and most of the time you should discuss the letter with your mashpia, you shouldn't rely on your own deductions.
It all sounds crazy, and although I may fall into the "anti" side of the spectrum, you really do get incredible answers.
Not too many from the anti side of the spectrum will admit/agree to that ;)
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline lybbtthl

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #881 on: February 04, 2015, 06:55:12 PM »
It all sounds crazy, and although I may fall into the "anti" side of the spectrum, you really do get incredible answers.
Not too many from the anti side of the spectrum will admit/agree to that ;)
stop considering yourself an anti!

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #882 on: February 04, 2015, 06:59:36 PM »
stop considering yourself an anti!
I don't believe that the rebbe has to be moshiach and I don't believe saying yechi or waiving flags causes achdus or brings moshiach closer (though it was fun to say yechi in high school just because the hanhola was so against it)
I have received powerful answers from Igros.

So call me what you want. 
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline elit

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #883 on: February 04, 2015, 07:05:04 PM »
I don't believe that the rebbe has to be moshiach and I don't believe saying yechi or waiving flags causes achdus or brings moshiach closer (though it was fun to say yechi in high school just because the hanhola was so against it)
I have received powerful answers from Igros.

So call me what you want.
Why was the hanhala so against it?

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #884 on: February 04, 2015, 07:13:27 PM »
Why was the hanhala so against it?
Probably because they...
don't believe saying yechi or waiving flags causes achdus or brings moshiach closer

You have anti hanhalas and you have mishichist hanhalas.
Most bochurim spend time under both and figure these things out for themselves.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.