Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 147711 times)

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #825 on: February 04, 2015, 09:42:37 AM »
When you say 'extremes', are you referring to 2 extremes, or just the 1 we're familiar with?

To simplify the whole thing, it's like this:

There are 3 groups within the Lubavitch.

1) The Meshichistin. They make up about 1%
2) The Anti Meshichistin. They make up another 1%.
3) The other 98% are the "I Don't Give a Shistim."

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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #826 on: February 04, 2015, 09:46:27 AM »

3) The other 98% are the "I Don't Give a Shistim."



Cute though in such a highly emotionally charged topic there aren't too many Lubavitchers who don't give. As mentioned previously there are no groups, it's a spectrum and not even a 2 dimensional one...
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Offline elit

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #827 on: February 04, 2015, 09:50:11 AM »
Let's keep this thread constructive or it'll go back into the depths.
Agree. I understand why this thread was locked in the past but it's a shame that a few people ruin it for the majority who want to have a civil and informative discussion. If everyone would just ignore them and not get baited into responding they probably  would stop
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 09:53:34 AM by elit »

Offline elit

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #828 on: February 04, 2015, 09:53:03 AM »
Thanks to all for answering my second question gut what about the first

Is the topic of moshiach like chazal,sources hashkafa actually a subject taught/studied in chabad yeshivas or all of you know a lot about it because you have just hard it so many times etc...


Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #829 on: February 04, 2015, 10:01:16 AM »
Thanks to all for answering my second question gut what about the first


In most Yeshivahs it isn't an official subject though it is often brought in as an "extra-curricular" project. That and the fact that when you are stuck having to debate an issue so many times you pick up a pretty good knowledge of the topic...
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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #830 on: February 04, 2015, 10:02:59 AM »
Thanks to all for answering my second question gut what about the first


It is embedded and quoted in much of the rebbeim's teachings which is studied daily.

In most Yeshivahs it isn't an official subject though it is often brought in as an "extra-curricular" project. That and the fact that when you are stuck having to debate an issue so many times you pick up a pretty good knowledge of the topic...
You didn't go to inyanei geula umashiach classes after seder ever day? Shameful :P

On second thought there are classes specifically on moshiach offered in most chabad yeshivas.
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Online lunatic

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #831 on: February 04, 2015, 10:04:34 AM »
To simplify the whole thing, it's like this:

There are 3 groups within the Lubavitch.

1) The Meshichistin. They make up about 1%
2) The Anti Meshichistin. They make up another 1%.
3) The other 98% are the "I Don't Give a Shistim."

/my contribution to deep ideological conversations/flame-wars.

Can you elaborate on #3? How can they be neutral to a topic that seems so central to chabad beliefs?

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #832 on: February 04, 2015, 10:05:33 AM »

 You didn't go to inyanei geula umashiach classes after seder ever day? Shameful :P


That's extra curricular in my book :P
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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #833 on: February 04, 2015, 10:06:44 AM »
Can you elaborate on #3? How can they be neutral to a topic that seems so central to chabad beliefs?
No No NO NO!

It is just about as far from central as you can get. Which I tried to stress so many times in this thread. What you believe about the rebbe and mosiach or alive doesn't effect the chabad school of teaching and how to live even one iota IMHO.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #834 on: February 04, 2015, 10:07:49 AM »
Can you elaborate on #3? How can they be neutral to a topic that seems so central to chabad beliefs?
Bringing moshiach closer is a central chabad belief.  More than that is for the fringes.

The vocal meshichistim believe by publicizing yechi that they will bring moshiach closer.
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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #835 on: February 04, 2015, 10:18:43 AM »
Btw,  I truly don't mean to offend anyone here. Just trying to understand

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #836 on: February 04, 2015, 10:28:01 AM »
Can you elaborate on #3? How can they be neutral to a topic that seems so central to chabad beliefs?

'twas a joke. The basic idea being as JJ and Dan are saying, the "centrality" of these beliefs within Chabad ideology is mostly imposed by others.


ETA: "Centrality of these beliefs" refers to beliefs of the Rebbe being Moshiach and the need to vocalize and publicize that or not - not Moshiach itself.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 10:37:38 AM by Yehuda57 »
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Offline Baruch

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #837 on: February 04, 2015, 10:28:52 AM »
There is a diyuk in the Rambam, who says that if Moshiach is "neherag" he can't be Moshiach, it is very meduyek that if he's "meis" that he still can be Moshiach. It always suprises me that Chabadskers don't bring up that Rambam more often. Any open minded person would be very impressed with that Rambam.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #838 on: February 04, 2015, 10:31:46 AM »
There is a diyuk in the Rambam, who says that if Moshiach is "neherag" he can't be Moshiach, it is very meduyek that if he's "meis" that he still can be Moshiach. It always suprises me that Chabadskers don't bring up that Rambam more often. Any open minded person would be very impressed with that Rambam.
Which Chabadskers have you been talking to? It's probably THE source used when a Lubavitcher wants to explain why he believes the Rebbe is Moshiach. If we don't bring it up more often it's because we assume that anyone getting into the conversation about who Moshiach is would already know this Rambam.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 11:08:20 AM by Achas Veachas »
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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #839 on: February 04, 2015, 10:35:13 AM »
Considering the centrality of Moshiach (itself whoever Moshiach is) in Chabad ideology it would be shocking if the talmidim didn't take an interest in "reading up on it".
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