Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 148166 times)

Offline moish

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #840 on: February 04, 2015, 11:06:04 AM »
There is a diyuk in the Rambam, who says that if Moshiach is "neherag" he can't be Moshiach, it is very meduyek that if he's "meis" that he still can be Moshiach. It always suprises me that Chabadskers don't bring up that Rambam more often. Any open minded person would be very impressed with that Rambam.
are you familiar with the context of the rambam?

Offline Freddie

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #841 on: February 04, 2015, 01:14:35 PM »
No No NO NO!

It is just about as far from central as you can get. Which I tried to stress so many times in this thread. What you believe about the rebbe and mosiach or alive doesn't effect the chabad school of teaching and how to live even one iota IMHO.

JJ is right.

Offline coralsnake

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #842 on: February 04, 2015, 01:23:43 PM »

The vocal meshichistim believe by publicizing yechi that they will bring moshiach closer.
Unfortunately, it seems the flag-waivers do more to divide rather than uniting klal Yisroel.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #843 on: February 04, 2015, 01:28:16 PM »
Easier to waive flags than learn or ask people to put on tefilin...
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Freddie

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #844 on: February 04, 2015, 01:34:21 PM »
Unfortunately, it seems the flag-waivers do more to divide rather than uniting klal Yisroel.

Yup.

Offline good sam

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #845 on: February 04, 2015, 01:49:41 PM »
Anyone read the Prime Ministers?  Yehuda Avner tells of when he went to the Lubavitcher Rebbe to discuss the outcome of a meeting between Begin and Carter.  At the end of the conversation, the Rebbe asks Yehuda Avner why he hasn't yet become a Lubavitcher chassid. He answers (quite boldly) that it's because "there are those who attribute to the Rebbe that which the Rebbe does not attribute to himself."  The Rebbe's answer? "There are some who require a crutch."

Probably doesn't change anything for anyone but definitely interesting.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline Freddie

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #846 on: February 04, 2015, 01:55:31 PM »
Anyone read the Prime Ministers?  Yehuda Avner tells of when he went to the Lubavitcher Rebbe to discuss the outcome of a meeting between Begin and Carter.  At the end of the conversation, the Rebbe asks Yehuda Avner why he hasn't yet become a Lubavitcher chassid. He answers (quite boldly) that it's because "there are those who attribute to the Rebbe that which the Rebbe does not attribute to himself."  The Rebbe's answer? "There are some who require a crutch."

Probably doesn't change anything for anyone but definitely interesting.

Continue the story, nu!


Offline ganizzy

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #847 on: February 04, 2015, 02:01:14 PM »
There is  2 different things.  Moshiach and who is moshiach.
Moshiach is def. A central core belief and attitude in chabad.
Who is moshiach is a personal belief.
For ex. I personally believe the Rebbe is moshiach and i say yechi, however i don't discuss that with others unless i am asked.  My sons don't wear yechi yarmulkahs. I don't tell guests/mekuravim..  to say it.
However at a simcha it will be sung  (ie I'm not hiding it )

The extreme side would be flag waving,  pushing yechi in others. ...

The other side of the extreme would be not allowing yechi to be said in  a lubavitch shul or at a personal simcha (yes it's happened ) making sure to write zia...

Most people are in between. Either they say yechi or not but it's not a big issue

Everyone talks about moshiach.
In my kids school they learn inyanei geulah and moshiach. A few lines a day or a week about the times of moshiach

Offline Ergel

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #848 on: February 04, 2015, 02:06:41 PM »
@ganizzy Do you believe the rebbe died?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline ganizzy

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #849 on: February 04, 2015, 02:29:33 PM »
@ganizzy Do you believe the rebbe died?
It's hard for a chassid to say dead.
That being said, i go to the ohel, we went to the levaya.
So i guess the answer would be yes

Offline Baruch

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #850 on: February 04, 2015, 02:43:12 PM »
Which Chabadskers have you been talking to? It's probably THE source used when a Lubavitcher wants to explain why he believes the Rebbe is Moshiach. If we don't bring it up more often it's because we assume that anyone getting into the conversation about who Moshiach is would already know this Rambam.
All I hear from Chabadskers is "Yaakov avinu lo mes". That Rambam is very hard to argue.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #851 on: February 04, 2015, 02:44:15 PM »
are you familiar with the context of the rambam?
yes. What's our point?

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #852 on: February 04, 2015, 02:58:21 PM »
All I hear from Chabadskers is "Yaakov avinu lo mes".
What does that have to do with moshiach?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #853 on: February 04, 2015, 03:06:02 PM »
What does that have to do with moshiach?
exactly!

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #854 on: February 04, 2015, 03:06:31 PM »
All I hear from Chabadskers is "Yaakov avinu lo mes". That Rambam is very hard to argue.
That's to discuss the Rebbe's life. His being Moshiach is from the Rambam.
Curiosity made the cat smarter.