Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 148326 times)

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #885 on: February 04, 2015, 07:21:55 PM »
When one wants to write a letter to the Rebbe, be it a bakasha for a bracha, a Pan (pidyan nefesh typically written on Erev R"H or your birthday) or a Duch (din vecheshbon, writing to the Rebbe about your achievements in a certain period or area) a chossid would prepare himself properly and take the moment very seriously. There are many preps that different people do, it's based your own hergeshim and discussions with your own mashpia. After writing the letter, randomly select a volume of Igros (or any other Sefer of the Rebbe's Torah, Igros has become the norm now since it is the most practical way to get a clear answer) and insert your letter into a random page. Afterwards, sit down and learn the letter and see what the Rebbe is discussing, and most of the time you should discuss the letter with your mashpia, you shouldn't rely on your own deductions.
how does one randomly select a book from 30 volumes?

Thanks for your clear answers.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #886 on: February 04, 2015, 07:26:18 PM »
how does one randomly select a book from 30 volumes?

Thanks for your clear answers.
You walk over to the bookshelf and chose one at random...
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline MeirS

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #887 on: February 04, 2015, 07:36:30 PM »
how does one randomly select a book from 30 volumes?

Thanks for your clear answers.

You walk over to the bookshelf and chose one at random...
Duh

How do you randomly select one banana out of 30 bananas?

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #888 on: February 04, 2015, 07:38:19 PM »
besides for what I wrote about no groups, rather a spectrum, i still think your numbers are way off.
I also think that the middle group is the worst, as a Lubavitcher you should be serious about such an inyan, regardless which way your inclined to, it should be important to you, and taking the attitude of don't give a shist, is a kaltkeit, indifference, which is the opposite of what Chabad is about. If you're a real chossid, this should be a matter of concern. I'm not saying you need to become a fanatic, but you need to have your own opinion sorted out in your head, regardless of what you show to others.
It was a joke, as was pretty clear. The point being that the extremely vast majority of Lubavitchers, while passionate in their beliefs and commitment to the Rebbe, would draw the line at polarizing behavior that cause strife and divides the community.

Sure, there's politics and fights about all kinds of stuff - as is wont to be in all communities, but fights in regards to the "meshichist/anti meshichist" issue were largely left behind a decade or more ago. Those clinging onto those fights are the extremes on either side.

For example, when did you last hear the question of someone's "meshichist" beliefs in a shidduch reference call? I heard it once. In the late 90s, it was apparently a significant concern (from what I've heard).
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #889 on: February 04, 2015, 07:41:33 PM »

For example, when did you last hear the question of someone's "meshichist" beliefs in a shidduch reference call? I heard it once. In the late 90s, it was apparently a significant concern (from what I've heard).
All the time... (not in reference calls, such Shiduchim don't usually make it that far...)

I was actually rejected by a very prominent CH family because I wasn't Meshichist enough (the only reason the Shidduch even came up is because the Shadchan tried convincing them that I really am Meshichist).
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #890 on: February 04, 2015, 07:42:58 PM »
All the time... (not in reference calls, such Shiduchim don't usually make it that far...)
Heh. Maybe I'm living in a blissful bubble.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #891 on: February 04, 2015, 07:44:14 PM »
That's nuts.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #892 on: February 04, 2015, 07:49:48 PM »
Heh. Maybe I'm living in a blissful bubble.
Maybe I'm just far enough on the "anti" spectrum where these things become relevant :P
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #893 on: February 04, 2015, 07:52:34 PM »
Maybe I'm just far enough on the "anti" spectrum where these things become relevant
Not to mix popcorn threads, but I don't vaccinate my kids cause I don't want them to be on the "anti spectrum"
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Offline lybbtthl

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #894 on: February 04, 2015, 08:14:46 PM »
When one wants to write a letter to the Rebbe, be it a bakasha for a bracha, a Pan (pidyan nefesh typically written on Erev R"H or your birthday) or a Duch (din vecheshbon, writing to the Rebbe about your achievements in a certain period or area) a chossid would prepare himself properly and take the moment very seriously. There are many preps that different people do, it's based your own hergeshim and discussions with your own mashpia. After writing the letter, randomly select a volume of Igros (or any other Sefer of the Rebbe's Torah, Igros has become the norm now since it is the most practical way to get a clear answer) and insert your letter into a random page. Afterwards, sit down and learn the letter and see what the Rebbe is discussing, and most of the time you should discuss the letter with your mashpia, you shouldn't rely on your own deductions.

I should add (although this should be obvious), you must take this serious to work, I know people who like to disprove it based on their own experiences, they were critical of it from the beginning and wrote a letter with the intention of discrediting this whole thing, and lo and behold then letter he opened up to had nothing to do with him...

on another note, one of the most amazing stories I heard first hand from the person assisting the writer, this person guided the writer through the process and told him to go over to the bookshelf and select a volume and put the letter in, afterwards he brought the sefer over and they began to look at the letter and they noticed it was the Frierdiker Rebbe's Igros, not the Rebbe's, they nonetheless learned the letter and the FR was addressing his exact issue, he had his answer. but afterwards, he was upset he used the FR's Igros and not the Rebbe's so he decided he's going to stick the same letter into the Rebbe's Igros, the Rebbe's letter he opened up read "I'm surprised you ask me this, being that the Rebbe the shver already answered you on this matter"

Offline lybbtthl

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #895 on: February 04, 2015, 08:15:55 PM »
It was a joke, as was pretty clear. The point being that the extremely vast majority of Lubavitchers, while passionate in their beliefs and commitment to the Rebbe, would draw the line at polarizing behavior that cause strife and divides the community.

Sure, there's politics and fights about all kinds of stuff - as is wont to be in all communities, but fights in regards to the "meshichist/anti meshichist" issue were largely left behind a decade or more ago. Those clinging onto those fights are the extremes on either side.

For example, when did you last hear the question of someone's "meshichist" beliefs in a shidduch reference call? I heard it once. In the late 90s, it was apparently a significant concern (from what I've heard).

You say it's a joke and I get that, but I've heard that line(s) many times and I thought it to be worthwhile bringing up my issue

Offline MosheD

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #896 on: February 04, 2015, 08:58:15 PM »
I should add (although this should be obvious), you must take this serious to work, I know people who like to disprove it based on their own experiences, they were critical of it from the beginning and wrote a letter with the intention of discrediting this whole thing, and lo and behold then letter he opened up to had nothing to do with him...

on another note, one of the most amazing stories I heard first hand from the person assisting the writer, this person guided the writer through the process and told him to go over to the bookshelf and select a volume and put the letter in, afterwards he brought the sefer over and they began to look at the letter and they noticed it was the Frierdiker Rebbe's Igros, not the Rebbe's, they nonetheless learned the letter and the FR was addressing his exact issue, he had his answer. but afterwards, he was upset he used the FR's Igros and not the Rebbe's so he decided he's going to stick the same letter into the Rebbe's Igros, the Rebbe's letter he opened up read "I'm surprised you ask me this, being that the Rebbe the shver already answered you on this matter"
Just for pure critical sake, (I'm sure your stories are amazing and show hashgacha pratis) but hee goofa!
This can probably be done with anything, as long as one has the right intentions and mindset. I vaguely recall stories of tzaddikim (not even sure if litvak or chassidish but I'm going to assume the latter) doing this with a tanach. It's all about the interpretation.

Offline Freddie

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #897 on: February 04, 2015, 09:24:58 PM »
Just for pure critical sake, (I'm sure your stories are amazing and show hashgacha pratis) but hee goofa!
This can probably be done with anything, as long as one has the right intentions and mindset. I vaguely recall stories of tzaddikim (not even sure if litvak or chassidish but I'm going to assume the latter) doing this with a tanach. It's all about the interpretation.

ומה שמקשה הלא אי-אפשר עתה [אחרי ההסתלקות] לשאול את כבוד-קדושת מורי-וחמי אדמו"ר הכ"מ כשיש ספק בהנהגה אם יעמוד חזק בהתקשרותו אליו, מבלי ישים לב לפתויי היצר, וישלח השאלה על ציון כבוד-קדושת מורי-וחמי אדמו"ר הכ"מ וועט דער רבי געפינען א וועג ווי עם צו ענטפערן

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #898 on: February 04, 2015, 09:37:25 PM »
Just for pure critical sake, (I'm sure your stories are amazing and show hashgacha pratis) but hee goofa!
This can probably be done with anything, as long as one has the right intentions and mindset. I vaguely recall stories of tzaddikim (not even sure if litvak or chassidish but I'm going to assume the latter) doing this with a tanach. It's all about the interpretation.
Someone mentioned not linking 2 popcorn threads together (אין מערבין פופקורן בפופקורן) but if there's something my experience with alternative medicine taught me, it's to be weary of things that only work if you believe in them... [/ducks, runs for cover]
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline normaly2345

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #899 on: February 04, 2015, 09:53:43 PM »
Regarding if the Rebbe moshiach there is two points.  Number one according to halacha and number two What's explained ע"פ חסידות.  According to halacha the rambam sets a criteria who could be bchezkas moshiach and who his moshiach vaday. According to halacha the Rebbe could only be bchezkas moshiach and not moshiach vaday. But according to how it's explained in chassidus and the Rebbe's Torah what moshiach,  Geulah, nassi and Rebbe is all about, its very clear that the Rebbe is moshiach.
And therefore for some one that didn't learn in chassidus regarding these things, it will be very hard to understand how the Rebbe is  moshiach . (I have heard from many so called "anti's" that according halacha not for sure, but ע"פ חסידות for sure.)