Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 241856 times)

Online aygart

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1160 on: July 25, 2017, 11:11:47 AM »
Fascinating. I expect I'll learn more about it on jury duty.

I wonder if I'll ever meet that type of lawyer. They must be rad cool.
I have been an expert witness in a dispute about energy. The lawyer was a great lawyer but he did not fully understand the energy industry. Very few if any litigation attorneys do.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1161 on: July 25, 2017, 11:39:36 AM »
My point is not whether there is halachic basis but rather to explain why someone on the outside does not find it credible that the "Moshiach thing" is a small part of the belief system. The first step in changing the way outsiders view something is to understand where that view comes from.
You're confusing the moshiach belief which is basically unanimous in chabad, with the elokistik sect.
Then there's the great middle, that "worship" the Rebbe, but not as littteral as the actual elokists....( Ie, "let's do mitzvos to make the Rebbe proud"- standard chabbad language etc)

In other words, a massively complicated topic. Can't be just "explained". Especially if what needs to be explained is subject to debate and is not defined.

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1162 on: July 25, 2017, 11:40:29 AM »
Because every goy understand Judaism right? Explained animal sacrifices or murdering children of amalek to many people recently? Outsiders not understanding a part of Judaism never seemed to be a problem before, in fact I recall one time some holy Jews were forced to explain Judaism and it was a pretty bad time for us...

Why do you need to go as far as goyim? How about having people here explain animal sacrifices or murdering children of amalek to themselves?

When it comes to the topic of Moshiach and גאולה, we all seem to suffer from some form of cognitive dissonance (everyone says they want the redemption in davening, but are they really ready to have all their miles/points across all programs suffer 100% devaluation without prior notice?). Different people choose to deal with that differently. The Rebbe urges us to deal with this head-on, and just like the mitzvah of Ahavas Hashem is to learn about Hashem in a way that will arouse that love, one should learn the facts about Moshiach and Geulah, so that one should really want it, rather than just pay lip service.


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Offline henche

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1163 on: July 25, 2017, 11:42:22 AM »
Why do you need to go as far as goyim? How about having people here explain animal sacrifices or murdering children of amalek to themselves?

When it comes to the topic of Moshiach and גאולה, we all seem to suffer from some form of cognitive dissonance (everyone says they want the redemption in davening, but are they really ready to have all their miles/points across all programs suffer 100% devaluation without prior notice?). Different people choose to deal with that differently. The Rebbe urges us to deal with this head-on, and just like the mitzvah of Ahavas Hashem is to learn about Hashem in a way that will arouse that love, one should learn the facts about Moshiach and Geulah, so that one should really want it, rather than just pay lip service.

This is why I live OOT.  Imagine trying to sell your 1.5 million dollar house in BP when moshiach comes and there's a million houses on the market in brooklyn. 

OOT, the market will barely notice. 

Offline whYME

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1164 on: July 25, 2017, 11:43:48 AM »
There's plenty of halachic basis for them to stand on.
::) :-X

Offline thaber

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1165 on: July 25, 2017, 12:00:39 PM »
Having been to hundreds of Chabad Houses around the world, I can't even recall a handful where I've seen Yechi yalmulkahs.
Not that I have a problem with it, but calling it common is silly.
To be fair, for example, on the 'invitation @ExGingi posted, it said Yechi on the bottom, that was probably barely noticed by the Chabaadniks here, and was glaring to those that are not Chabadniks. I think that's @aygart  point. like @churnbabychurn said, there's language used in Chabad that strikes outsiders as odd, but is part of the vernacular inside.
I'm blessed to live in a very integrated community, and flit back and forth from the Lakewood Kollel to a Nusach Ari minyan, but for New Yorkers, it's very 'other'.

This is why I live OOT.  Imagine trying to sell your 1.5 million dollar house in BP when moshiach comes and there's a million houses on the market in brooklyn. 

OOT, the market will barely notice. 
depends on your OOT. the whole Hancock Park for sale will be noticeable.

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1166 on: July 25, 2017, 12:06:58 PM »
To be fair, for example, on the 'invitation @ExGingi posted, it said Yechi on the bottom, that was probably barely noticed by the Chabaadniks here, and was glaring to those that are not Chabadniks. I think that's @aygart  point. like @churnbabychurn said, there's language used in Chabad that strikes outsiders as odd, but is part of the vernacular inside.
I'm blessed to live in a very integrated community, and flit back and forth from the Lakewood Kollel to a Nusach Ari minyan, but for New Yorkers, it's very 'other'.
depends on your OOT. the whole Hancock Park for sale will be noticeable.
It's not really a secret that we have a couple meshchist posters here. In general CH has a higher percentage of meshchists than OOT. Is it different then what you're used to, sure. Does it mean that it's against halacha, no. As you can see if you read through this thread.


FWIW, I'd guess that perhaps 1 or 2% of Chabad invitations might have Yechi on it.
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Offline thaber

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1167 on: July 25, 2017, 12:15:11 PM »
It's not really a secret that we have a couple meshchist posters here. In general CH has a higher percentage of meshchists than OOT. Is it different then what you're used to, sure. Does it mean that it's against halacha, no. As you can see if you read through this thread.


FWIW, I'd guess that perhaps 1 or 2% of Chabad invitations might have Yechi on it.
I was making a social observation, not a halachic one.
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Offline henche

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1168 on: July 25, 2017, 12:16:25 PM »
I was making a social observation, not a halachic one.
Full disclosure of my OOT status - my desk right now.

Koren chumash goes on bottom

Offline thaber

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1169 on: July 25, 2017, 12:17:28 PM »
Koren chumash goes on bottom
It's a Kinos, it's that different?

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1170 on: July 25, 2017, 12:32:49 PM »
It's not really a secret that we have a couple meshchist posters here. In general CH has a higher percentage of meshchists than OOT. Is it different then what you're used to, sure. Does it mean that it's against halacha, no. As you can see if you read through this thread.


FWIW, I'd guess that perhaps 1 or 2% of Chabad invitations might have Yechi on it.
Until you understand the issues that people have with Yechi all the halachic arguments will get you nowhere.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1171 on: July 25, 2017, 12:34:51 PM »
Until you understand the issues that people have with Yechi all the halachic arguments will get you nowhere.
We've been through them in the past 79 pages of this thread...
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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1172 on: July 25, 2017, 12:35:58 PM »
We've been through them in the past 79 pages of this thread...
24 pages, I still don't understand how you have't changed your pages to 50 messages.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1173 on: July 25, 2017, 12:37:13 PM »
24 pages, I still don't understand how you have't changed your pages to 50 messages.
I also use WAP on my phone over Tapa.
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Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline henche

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1174 on: July 25, 2017, 12:37:27 PM »
24 pages, I still don't understand how you have't changed your pages to 50 messages.

I can change that?

Offline CS1

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1175 on: July 25, 2017, 12:37:43 PM »
This is why I live OOT.  Imagine trying to sell your 1.5 million dollar house in BP when moshiach comes and there's a million houses on the market in brooklyn. 

OOT, the market will barely notice.

-1
all of our houses are coming to EY with us.
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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1176 on: July 25, 2017, 12:38:15 PM »
We've been through them in the past 79 pages of this thread...
and they seem to have gone right over your head considering that you keep going back to
There's plenty of halachic basis for them to stand on.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1177 on: July 25, 2017, 12:39:02 PM »
-1
all of our houses are coming to EY with us.
Source?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline elit

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1178 on: July 25, 2017, 12:44:21 PM »
I can't believe this thread is starting up again

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1179 on: July 25, 2017, 01:12:08 PM »
but for New Yorkers, it's very 'other'.

You know what was "other" for me? Finding out that many Chassidishe and Litvishe (Yeshivish?) Yidden do not know their Jewish birthdays. Mind blowing, actually.

Or that a guy I know in Borough Park who trims his beard and is boki in every recent Hollywood release wears a black velvet yarmulke even though he is jealous of my dark burgundy velvet yarmulke, because, "Are you crazy? My kid will never get into a school!"

Or that you willingly took a picture of seforim with a chumash sitting in middle that wasn't placed on top of the other seforim.

One's other is another's mother.
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