Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 146940 times)

Offline henche

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1425 on: July 28, 2017, 12:01:51 AM »
Huh? I read up extensively on the machlokes between Misnagdim and Chassidim, and I never once saw mention of this issue. Please elaborate. I may be misunderstanding you.

You mean you read this thread.

Online jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1426 on: July 28, 2017, 12:01:58 AM »
True.

While Baruch can say he was quoted "Shittisim", I've heard from other people that there are many from that sect that most certainly do believe that.
Whether they'll freely admit that to an outsider is another story though.

How many Lubavichers do you know that won't ever say the Rebbe is mashiach in public but will tell you behind closed doors after a few shots? Thousands probably?

No reason the same can't apply elsewhere.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1427 on: July 28, 2017, 12:03:22 AM »
How many Lubavichers do you know that won't ever say the Rebbe is mashiach in public but will tell you behind closed doors after a few shots? Thousands probably?

No reason the same can't apply elsewhere.
This!

That's why I don't buy the Dan's whole "fringe luny aurgument".
The problem is deep and systemic. They just won't necessarily all say it all...

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1428 on: July 28, 2017, 12:03:54 AM »
Huh? I read up extensively on the machlokes between Misnagdim and Chassidim, and I never once saw mention of this issue. Please elaborate. I may be misunderstanding you.
Are you serious?
The Rebbe-Chosid relationship was definitely a major beef of the misnagdim
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1429 on: July 28, 2017, 12:05:22 AM »
You mean you read this thread.
No, I've read a half a dozen books/seforim about it.

(my roomate was obsessed with the subject and had all the books)
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1430 on: July 28, 2017, 12:05:38 AM »
Noone but chabbad use term nosi hador.

Words matter. This term was coined to induce some kind of dynastic royalty attributed to the last couple of leaders.

No chassidim use this anywhere near in an extreme way as chabbad.
Who introduced Gadol Hador?
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Online jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1431 on: July 28, 2017, 12:07:04 AM »
No, I've read a half a dozen books/seforim about it.

(my roomate was obsessed with the subject and had all the books)
Did you read Rappaport's book on the subject?
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Online jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1432 on: July 28, 2017, 12:07:27 AM »
This!

That's why I don't buy the Dan's whole "fringe luny aurgument".
The problem is deep and systemic. They just won't necessarily all say it all...

I assume you or some of your friends want to commit suicide if they would know they get into gan eiden. Whether you say it openly or not. Just know that... And understand what your statements say about yourself, that is what I have tried to show you in my past replies, that have gone unanswered.

Good night y'all. Hope there isn't too much to read up on tomorrow.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1433 on: July 28, 2017, 12:08:49 AM »
Who introduced Gadol Hador?
Nosi has a dynistic /ruler/king conotation.
Gadol absolutely does not. These terms matter

Offline Baruch

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1434 on: July 28, 2017, 12:12:33 AM »
Are you serious?
The Rebbe-Chosid relationship was definitely a major beef of the misnagdim
You were responding to his question, which was - how can all chasidusin believe that their Rebbe is the nasi hador, if there's only one nasi hador.

As I said I may have misunderstood you. I thought you were responding to his logical question. It seems you were responding to to a different question (maybe you were responding to his wierdness comment.)
Whatever.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1435 on: July 28, 2017, 12:14:41 AM »
I assume you or some of your friends want to commit suicide if they would know they get into gan eiden. Whether you say it openly or not. Just know that... And understand what your statements say about yourself, that is what I have tried to show you in my past replies, that have gone unanswered.

Good night y'all. Hope there isn't too much to read up on tomorrow.
Just to give you a better night..

Actually, since tov lo lodom shelo nivra yoser mishenivra, it is actually very logical to want to die asap as long as gan Eden is guaranteed!


Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1436 on: July 28, 2017, 12:14:52 AM »
You were responding to his question, which was - how can all chasidusin believe that their Rebbe is the nasi hador, if there's only one nasi hador.

As I said I may have misunderstood you. I thought you were responding to his logical question. It seems you were responding to to a different question (maybe you were responding to his wierdness comment.)
Whatever.
Believing your Rebbe to be Manhig/Nosi hador is part of the Rebbe-Chosid relationship.
The concept of "needing" a Rebbe was a main beef of the misnagdim.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1437 on: July 28, 2017, 12:15:21 AM »
Did you read Rappaport's book on the subject?
I don't recall
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Offline mgarfin

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1438 on: July 28, 2017, 12:15:23 AM »
I think I linked another​ weird viznitz thing somewhere in the forums over years..  gonna take some real digging to find

It was a sheet from a Rebbi for young children I recall

Offline Baruch

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1439 on: July 28, 2017, 12:16:19 AM »
Believing your Rebbe to be Manhig/Nosi hador is part of the Rebbe-Chosid relationship.
But his logical objection was never the objection historically, it was a different beef. Whatever. Pointless to argue over this. We both agree that the Chassid-Rebbe relationship was a major beef.
When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".