Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 143474 times)

Offline henche

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1455 on: July 28, 2017, 12:41:11 AM »
Chassidim believed at the time that saying Yechi would bring Moshiach. That publicized something that was always an essential part or natural outcome, albeit private part, of the Rebbe-Chosid relationship.
Alas, it didn't happen and Yechi is very rare today outside of 770s basement, Tzfas, and the small handful of mushroom/yellow flag chabad houses. In fact most chabad houses and yeshivas will toss you out for saying yechi today, but YMMV.

My local chabad (where I daven often Fri night in summer) yechis, but mainly when the kids are visiting.

They don't seem extreme generally, and don't have yellow pins.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1456 on: July 28, 2017, 12:43:06 AM »
Why do Chassidim think that Misnagdim of today think the Ga'on made an error? We absolutely don't!
Key words, which unfortunately tie heavily into what the Novomisker wrote.

The fact is that the direct talmidim of the Gr"a weren't proud of it.

And you really think that something that results in messira and murder isn't a mistake. If it's not a mistake, is it actually something worse?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 12:49:41 AM by ExGingi »
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Offline koplonko

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1457 on: July 28, 2017, 12:43:47 AM »
Please stop repeating that. It is not true. No Chassidus believes that part of being a Chassid is believing the Rebbe is Moshiach.
(I highly doubt Lubavitch itself thought that way in the RaShab's times- but I don't know, maybe they did.)
Please research why the Mitteler Rebbe was called so
And why the tzemach tzedek ('s seforim) was named so

Offline Baruch

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1458 on: July 28, 2017, 12:47:14 AM »
Please research why the Mitteler Rebbe was called so
And why the tzemach tzedek ('s seforim) was named so
From Wikipedia: He is also known as the Mitteler Rebbe ("Middle Rebbe" in Yiddish), being the second of the first three generations of Chabad leaders.
When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1459 on: July 28, 2017, 12:50:47 AM »
Is there a dedicated thread that discuss views on what is chasidus, what was the Bal shem tov mechadish.....?

Offline koplonko

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1460 on: July 28, 2017, 12:54:20 AM »

Alas, it didn't happen and Yechi is very rare today outside of 770s basement, Tzfas, and the small handful of mushroom/yellow flag chabad houses. In fact most chabad houses and yeshivas will toss you out for saying yechi today, but YMMV.
Now you're stam hacking
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 12:59:36 AM by koplonko »

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1461 on: July 28, 2017, 12:55:40 AM »
Why do Chassidim think that Misnagdim of today think the Ga'on made an error? We absolutely don't!
That view is probably more heretical, and more out of line with widely held belief (with the exception of the few that will agree with your statement) than anything you might hear out of Lubavitch.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline koplonko

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1462 on: July 28, 2017, 12:55:54 AM »
From Wikipedia: He is also known as the Mitteler Rebbe ("Middle Rebbe" in Yiddish), being the second of the first three generations of Chabad leaders.
But there are seven altogether, so why is he middle?
P.s. if we would look deeper than Wikipedia, this whole thread would be closed

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1463 on: July 28, 2017, 12:59:32 AM »
Lies
Meshichists are so much fun :)

I used to be one myself as a young teenager, but it was more to be l'haches against the anti hanhala :D
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1464 on: July 28, 2017, 01:13:12 AM »
That view is probably more heretical, and more out of line with widely held belief (with the exception of the few that will agree with your statement) than anything you might hear out of Lubavitch.
We both live in our own bubbles. But it will be very hard for you to get any litvak to say that the Ga'on made a mistake, not on this subject, or any subject.
When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1465 on: July 28, 2017, 01:20:30 AM »
We both live in our own bubbles. But it will be very hard for you to get any litvak to say that the Ga'on made a mistake, not on this subject, or any subject.
I fully agree that I live in a bubble, though this forum (and professional relationships) do get me to peek outside of the bubble.

Besides for living in bubbles, everyone rewrites and embellishes history to one extent or another.

So, could you honestly explain to me how not admiting it was a mistake is in any way better or more respectful of the Gr"a? What is the alternative?

The fact is that the direct talmidim of the Gr"a weren't proud of it.

And you really think that something that results in messira and murder isn't a mistake. If it's not a mistake, is it actually something worse?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1466 on: July 28, 2017, 01:22:17 AM »
Meshichists are so much fun :)

I used to be one myself as a young teenager, but it was more to be l'haches against the anti hanhala :D
My head is spinning from all the negatives in that sentence. Or as they say in Hebrew מי נגד מי?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Baruch

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1467 on: July 28, 2017, 01:22:57 AM »
I fully agree that I live in a bubble, though this forum (and professional relationships) do get me to peek outside of the bubble.

Besides for living in bubbles, everyone rewrites and embellishes history to one extent or another.

So, could you honestly explain to me how not admiting it was a mistake is in any way better or more respectful of the Gr"a? What is the alternative?
If you truly want to hear an answer to that question, read the 3rd chelek of the book "HaGaon".
When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1468 on: July 28, 2017, 01:25:26 AM »
If you truly want to hear an answer to that question, read the 3rd chelek of the book "HaGaon".
Care to share it with me. Preferably in electronic format. I'll give you a PDF of "The Making of a Godol" in exchange.  ;)

I am actually serious. I do want to understand the thinking. I also would like to see the purported haskomo of R Kanievsky.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Baruch

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #1469 on: July 28, 2017, 01:34:42 AM »
Care to share it with me. Preferably in electronic format. I'll give you a PDF of "The Making of a Godol" in exchange.  ;)

I am actually serious. I do want to understand the thinking. I also would like to see the purported haskomo of R Kanievsky.
I have the physical book in Lakewood.
When somebody thanks you for a favor you've done, respond "my pleasure", not "no problem".