Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 147683 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #195 on: February 07, 2012, 04:50:48 PM »
That's exactly the point.
The Rebbe would never say such things about an "am ha'aretz", let alone a "gadol"
+1,000,000

I apologize for offending anyone, but it is extremely difficult to have a calm and rational conversation about someone who calls your Rebbe a madman and your religion a cult and not part of Judaism. 
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #196 on: February 07, 2012, 04:54:22 PM »
I ain't got no skin in this fight, but I gotta agree with that.

I agree as well. I mentioned R' Shach four times in this thread, and (only) once I inadvertently omitted the R', I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

While saying that, I think mentioning R' Shach in the context of this thread was a mistake, and now that it was brought up I believe Chabad people should have the right to be moiche about what he said. And yes, Jewda (IMHO) has the right to be moiche about what Cbs said. Either way, R' Shach is OT in the context of this discussion, and the Chabad people who were asked stated that if he indeed appeared as the Moshiach we would recognize him as such, not let's get back on topic please.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 05:04:18 PM by AsherO »
PGF24BMGS

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #197 on: February 07, 2012, 04:57:09 PM »
I agree as well. I mentioned R' Shach four times in this thread, and (only) once I inadvertently omitted the R', I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

While saying that, I think mentioning R' Shach in the context of this thread was a mistake, and now that it was brought up I believe Chabad people should have the right to be moiche about what he said. And yes, Jewda (IMHO) has the right to be moiche about what Cbs said. Either way, Shach is OT in the context of this discussion, and the Chabad people who were asked stated that if he indeed appeared as the Moshiach we would recognize him as such, not let's get back on topic please.
+1
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #198 on: February 07, 2012, 04:58:40 PM »
I agree as well. I mentioned R' Shach four times in this thread, and (only) once I inadvertently omitted the R', I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

While saying that, I think mentioning R' Shach in the context of this thread was a mistake, and now that it was brought up I believe Chabad people should have the right to be moiche about what he said. And yes, Jewda (IMHO) has the right to be moiche about what Cbs said. Either way, R' Shach is OT in the context of this discussion, and the Chabad people who were asked stated that if he indeed appeared as the Moshiach we would recognize him as such, not let's get back on topic please.

C'mon, make an effort  :P

Offline AsherO

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #199 on: February 07, 2012, 05:00:31 PM »
C'mon, make an effort  :P

An effort to what? Further agitate the conversation in an off-topic way?
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #200 on: February 07, 2012, 05:01:40 PM »
An effort to what? Further agitate the conversation in an off-topic way?

No, I mean you went out of your way to say that you've been putting the R' in there except maybe once unintentionally, and then you left it out in the next paragraph.

(Was that the wrong type of smiley for the situation? I can never get those right.)

Offline AsherO

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #201 on: February 07, 2012, 05:05:22 PM »
No, I mean you went out of your way to say that you've been putting the R' in there except maybe once unintentionally, and then you left it out in the next paragraph.

(Was that the wrong type of smiley for the situation? I can never get those right.)

FTFY. Again, I may feel a certain way, but I'm not going to consciously say things here to offend people.
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Offline AJK

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #202 on: February 07, 2012, 05:10:06 PM »
I just don't get one thing:

Presumably, everyone involved in this discussion is Jewish. That means there is no "your gadol" or "my gadol" or "your rebbe" or "my rebbe", at least with regard to the respect to be accorded them.

They are our gedolim, and our rabbeim. We are one. Like it or not.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #203 on: February 07, 2012, 05:11:02 PM »
I just don't get one thing:

Presumably, everyone involved in this discussion is Jewish. That means there is no "your gadol" or "my gadol" or "your rebbe" or "my rebbe", at least with regard to the respect to be accorded them.

They are our gedolim, and our rabbeim. We are one. Like it or not.

Halevai. If this was the case Moshiach would be here already.
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Offline AJK

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #204 on: February 07, 2012, 05:17:40 PM »
If this was the case Moshiach would be here already.

If only.

My "lofty ideal" only accounts for our attitudes towards the leaders of a generation, which, unfortunately, says nothing of the others of the generation, as is evidenced by this very thread.
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Offline whYME

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #205 on: February 07, 2012, 05:20:40 PM »
My "lofty ideal" only accounts for our attitudes towards the leaders of a generation,
the "fighting" here appears to be over what constitutes "the leaders of [our] generation"

Offline AJK

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #206 on: February 07, 2012, 05:22:35 PM »
the "fighting" here appears to be over what constitutes "the leaders of [our] generation"

Are there people here who truly dispute that either of the two giants mentioned in this thread were not leaders of our generation???
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Offline whYME

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #207 on: February 07, 2012, 05:24:53 PM »
Are there people here who truly dispute that either of the two giants mentioned in this thread were not leaders of our generation???
now that things appear to have cooled down a little I won't answer that.

Offline Drago

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #208 on: February 07, 2012, 05:26:23 PM »
Jiminy, this whole thing did get out of hand.

I specifically didn't mention anything about the halachik possibility in the opening post, since like so many hashkafic things, there is not true psak. I'll bring my Rav and sources, you'll have your Rav and sources, and we'll never reconcile. Therefore, that discussion is more or less pointless, and I specifically didn't bring it up.

I was trying to focus more on how it developed, how it's handled in Chabad, and what ppl think the future will bring. Not whether it's justified, or crazy, or logical, or avoda zara.

Since I was in this yeshiva 10 yrs ago, I haven't spoken with this Rav in a while, but I can try to get in touch with him to hear what he says.

I still want to discuss some of the more sane posts, such as CBS's first post, but I haven't had a chance. Every time I open the thread, there are 5 more pages added.

Hopefully tomorrow (I'm in Israel now, and it's late).

Offline whYME

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #209 on: February 07, 2012, 05:30:11 PM »
I specifically didn't mention anything about the halachik possibility in the opening post,
Not outright.
You merely mentioned that you wont daven in a chabad minyan if possible...
(Implying that we might not be kosher for a minyan)


EDIT: I understand you weren't trying to be offensive, I'm just pointing out how offensive it (inadvertently) turned out.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 05:36:56 PM by whYME »