Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 146219 times)

Offline Drago

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #450 on: January 15, 2013, 03:38:12 PM »
Iv heard rumors of chabdniks at 770 while saying "Vanachnu korim umishtachavim" they bow to a portrait of the rebbeh, I have no idea if this is true. (maybe its a couple of nuts).Is there a photo of the rebbeh in the shul? Is it on the mizrach wall?
Dunno, but they dont say such stories about any other chassidus...
Some weird stuff, but not exactly what you write.
&feature=player_embedded
I may have posted others earlier in this thread.

And some internal strife
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&feature=player_embedded


Gotta admit, even if it's a teeny tiny group, the fact that this happens in the hq of the movement definitely puts a stain on it...

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #451 on: January 15, 2013, 03:40:40 PM »
Let me just say one thing, I love talking about present day Chabad with Lubavitcer old timers, who realize that what Chabad became was a tremendous change, and can debate it, and understand clearly where the anti chabad sentiment comes from (I have relatives). But with people 35 years and under who never knew anything else, it's like  talking to a wall.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #452 on: January 15, 2013, 03:40:55 PM »
Which movement is headquartered is the basement of 770 other than the Taliban, the Tzfati extremist thugs that occupy it illegally, who are despised by 99.9% of lubavitchers worldwide?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 03:44:25 PM by Dan »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #453 on: January 15, 2013, 03:43:18 PM »
Let me just say one thing, I love talking about present day Chabad with Lubavitcer old timers, who realize that what Chabad became was a tremendous change, and can debate it, and understand clearly where the anti chabad sentiment comes from (I have relatives). But with people 35 years and under who never knew anything else, it's like  talking to a wall.
So you like hearing what you like to hear. That makes sense to me. It is especially is inline with this whole thread because basically anything can be answered with some simple googling.
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Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #454 on: January 15, 2013, 03:43:48 PM »
I think it is clear that the majority of crown heights are meshichistim and that is probably why they have control of 770.

Whether or not crown heights residents represent the real chabad or the shluchim do is an old machlokes.

Offline Drago

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #455 on: January 15, 2013, 03:47:45 PM »
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/172,1285/Why-doesnt-Chabad-select-a-new-Rebbe.html
Ehh, it's a circular type of argument to make.

But if it's true, at what point does that generation end (and hence the Rebbe was not correct) and Chabad appoint a new Rebbe to lead the flock?

If Chabad ever tried doing that, would it cause a complete schism btw the radical mashicists and the rest of chabad?

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #456 on: January 15, 2013, 03:49:00 PM »
So you like hearing what you like to hear. That makes sense to me. It is especially is inline with this whole thread because basically anything can be answered with some simple googling.
No, they argue with me, and explain the rebbe's chiddushim, they don't agree with me. But with you guys, it's like everything anti chabad is from left field.
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #457 on: January 15, 2013, 03:50:01 PM »
Just wondering why Lakewood doesn't have the Taliban occupying their headquaters?
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Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #458 on: January 15, 2013, 03:53:13 PM »
Just wondering why Lakewood doesn't have the Taliban occupying their headquaters?
It's more an israeli problem but sadly chabad is not the only group with loudmouths giving their group a bad name. 

Offline Drago

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #459 on: January 15, 2013, 03:53:43 PM »
that you see many chassidim going to the Rebbe but you will never see a lubavitcher go to another Rebbe for a bracha.  This was said as a positive thing but from an "anti-lubavitch" perspective this type of attitude is viewed as very scary and dangerous.  There have always been many factions within Judaism but Jews from each faction always were machshiv the Gedolim from other factions and considered the various gedolim equal or sometimes even greater than their rebbe, rav etc... even if they were not their mesora and certainly worthy of getting a bracha from. Maybe there was a specific disagreement to a particular gadul, never all of the other gedolim.  Correct me if Im wrong but that doesn't seem to be true with lubovitch. They seem to have held that no one is comparable to the Rebbe at all. 
Interesting point.
Is it true?

No, I would say Aish's success is another testament to the effect of the Rebbe on klal yisroel.
(let me guess, you're gonna say that it was Aish that started the whole kiruv thing and it wasn't influenced by the Rebbe?)
And I always thought it was R. Carlebach
:)


Offline elit

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #460 on: January 15, 2013, 03:55:14 PM »
As for a mesora, as long as there is a halachik source whether you follow it or not you can't call it kfira. Who paskened on this before? How would you know which mesora to follow, its not exactly a daily talked about halacha over the past many years. If a beis din decides to follow a certain rishon even if that wasn't the norm until then isn't that halachikly ok? I definitely wouldn't call it kfira. No?
Sorry about the lack of paragraphs it didn't look that bad when I was typing.... I don't know about kfira for that reason alone but it definitely is a very dangerous approach

Offline Drago

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #461 on: January 15, 2013, 03:57:47 PM »
It's more an israeli problem but sadly chabad is not the only group with loudmouths giving their group a bad name. 
Definitely.
But since they've probably impacted the widest variety of ppl in klal yisroel, the loudmouths have the strongest impact than the loudmouths in other grps.

Especially in Israel where they all seem to be loudmouths :)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #462 on: January 15, 2013, 04:06:18 PM »
In every generation there is a nosi, someone who would qualify to be moshiach should the generation merit it.
I'm not saying the Rebbe was Moshe Rabbeinu as I'm not saying our generation was the one that left Mitzrayim. 
I'm saying he is a nosi in our generation as was Moshe in his generation.

Feel free to disagree with this aspect of chabad ideology, but that's the answer to your question.
Say for arguments sake you are correct, that every generation has a "nosi/moshiach". If you believe that the rebbe passed away ~20 years ago, who is the current Nosi? Who is your leader, who is your Nosi?
If you tell me that you believe that its still the rebbe, as the Nosi can be from the dead too, surly you would agree that there much greater leaders amongst the dead. Why not proclaim the  Alter Rebbe Nosi/Moshiach?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #463 on: January 15, 2013, 04:07:45 PM »
Ehh, it's a circular type of argument to make.

But if it's true, at what point does that generation end (and hence the Rebbe was not correct) and Chabad appoint a new Rebbe to lead the flock?

If Chabad ever tried doing that, would it cause a complete schism btw the radical mashicists and the rest of chabad?
+1

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #464 on: January 15, 2013, 04:10:17 PM »
Some weird stuff, but not exactly what you write.
&feature=player_embedded
I may have posted others earlier in this thread.

And some internal strife
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
&feature=player_embedded


Gotta admit, even if it's a teeny tiny group, the fact that this happens in the hq of the movement definitely puts a stain on it...
the first video is so disturbing and pathetic.  :'(