Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 147901 times)

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #480 on: January 15, 2013, 04:53:14 PM »
Why do I think Moshe Rabeinu, The Ba'al HaTanya, The GR"A or any other Gadol any of us hold dear wouldn't approve of this thread?
Curiosity made the cat smarter.

Offline yare

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #481 on: January 15, 2013, 05:02:35 PM »
Can we please not get into a Rav Shach debate. Yare could tell you he did care for all yiden that's why he tried getting them to stop believing in kfira...
thanks for fielding that one  :P

No, I would say Aish's success is another testament to the effect of the Rebbe on klal yisroel.
(let me guess, you're gonna say that it was Aish that started the whole kiruv thing and it wasn't influenced by the Rebbe?)
you missed the point.  ones effect on diverse yidden/kiruv is not a testament to their standing as a gadol/nasi hador.   show me one place in tanach or gemara where the gadol hador was decided by who had an effect on a lot of people?     it's very nice (possibly), but i'm not sure why you think it's in any way a qualifier.   

I think he would.
joking or clueless?

Offline Drago

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #482 on: January 15, 2013, 05:09:41 PM »
On a completely side note, is it discussed and well-known in Chabad circles that he was in University in Berlin, wore the Litvishe type hat, etc? When I read it, I was very pleasantly surprised. I have no doubt that its one of the reasons he was more approachable and open than other manhigai hador.

"Schneerson studied mathematics, physics and philosophy in Berlin, Germany for five semesters from mid-1928 through 1930.[24] His father-in-law, Yosef Yitzchok, paid for all the tuition expenses and helped facilitate his studies throughout."

"In 1933, Rabbi Schneerson moved to Paris, France. He studied mechanics and electrical engineering at the École spéciale des travaux publics, du bâtiment et de l'industrie (ESTP), a Grandes écoles in the Montparnasse district. He graduated in July 1937 and received a license to practice as an electrical engineer. In November 1937, he enrolled at the Sorbonne, where he studied mathematics until World War II broke out in 1939."


Online whYME

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #483 on: January 15, 2013, 05:12:37 PM »
you missed the point.  ones effect on diverse yidden/kiruv is not a testament to their standing as a gadol/nasi hador.   show me one place in tanach or gemara where the gadol hador was decided by who had an effect on a lot of people?     it's very nice (possibly), but i'm not sure why you think it's in any way a qualifier.
I think you missed the point.
The point is the Rebbe cared about, took an interest in and did what could to help every yid, especially those who needed strengthening in their yiddishkeit. The Rebbe acted like a leader, a raya mehemna -a faithful sheperd who cared for every one of his flock. that's what makes him a nosi.
The effect on multitudes of yiden is an outcome of that.

   
joking or clueless?
Dead serious.
That's what the rebbe was all about. Taking the klipas nogah of the world (i.e. TV, Basketball games) and using them to spread yiddishkeit.

Online jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #484 on: January 15, 2013, 05:14:53 PM »
On a completely side note, is it discussed and well-known in Chabad circles that he was in University in Berlin, wore the Litvishe type hat, etc? When I read it, I was very pleasantly surprised. I have no doubt that its one of the reasons he was more approachable and open than other manhigai hador.

Litvishe hat? What's that? What is litvish about this?


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Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #485 on: January 15, 2013, 05:15:55 PM »
The wackos are not in a position of power and do not control the shlichus operation or the chabad movement. 
They just are the majority of crown heights, control the shul, and control the beis din. Did I forget anything else?

Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #486 on: January 15, 2013, 05:18:19 PM »
Litvishe hat? What's that? What is litvish about this?


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compare to what the freidiker wore.

Offline Drago

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #487 on: January 15, 2013, 05:19:55 PM »
Litvishe hat? What's that? What is litvish about this?


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Didn't see anything.

In the link below (I didn't read the post) is a pic. I had seen a better pic last year, but can't find it now.
http://chabadrevisited.blogspot.co.il/2010/05/inspired-by-forthcoming-book-titled.html
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 05:24:45 PM by Drago »

Online jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #488 on: January 15, 2013, 05:21:07 PM »
compare to what the freidiker wore.
How is that litvish? It's a veltish hat. They say a story that a chassid from a different sect said the the Rebbe if only you wore a streimel you would have hundreds of thousands more chassidim. the Rebbe replied I care more about affecting one yeshuvnick in Israel, then making other chassidim my own.
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Offline Drago

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #489 on: January 15, 2013, 05:41:46 PM »
A. Because we don't want a new leader, we want moshiach, and believe he will come every day as we are commanded to.
B. There is no Lubavitcher in the world who would accept upon himself to succeed the Rebbe.
C. The Rebbe became Rebbe only after a year of pleading from Chassidim worldwide.  There is no popular demand for any person to become Rebbe today.
D. Even if such a person existed the vast majority would not accept him, thus rendering it pointless.

Anyway why does a leader have to be living? We have a leader, he left behind hundreds of seforim on nigleh and chassidus, along with instructions on how to be a good Jew and love your fellow jew, and how to make this world a dwelling place for Gd, at which point moshiach's promise to the Baal Shem Tov will come true.
Dan, lets be honest.
If he had a son, he would have been the new Rebbe. Even if he wasn't as great.
I think that your answers are b'dieved in order to explain the current situation.

And this entire thread would be irrelevant.

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #490 on: January 15, 2013, 05:46:00 PM »
If he had a son then B C and D would likely not apply.
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Online skyguy918

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #491 on: January 15, 2013, 05:49:01 PM »
If he had a son then B C and D would likely not apply.

How does having a new leader preclude wanting moshiach? Didn't everyone want moshiach to come while the Rebbe was alive?

Offline Cbs

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #492 on: January 15, 2013, 05:54:52 PM »
If he had a son then B C and D would likely not apply.
+1

How does having a new leader preclude wanting moshiach? Didn't everyone want moshiach to come while the Rebbe was alive?
yes because the rebbe said if I'm not mistaken this is the last generation before moshiach and it's up to us and he did what he could. A new leader would mean that there's more to he can do.
In any case once everyone saw that the rebbe had no kids etc they thought this must be the end and moshiach for sure will come

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #493 on: January 15, 2013, 06:11:01 PM »
A. is hogwash, all jews in all generations waited for moshiach every day at least as much as chabad. They still needed and wanted to be lead-Especially the chassidim.

Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #494 on: January 15, 2013, 06:19:23 PM »
They say a story that a chassid from a different sect said the the Rebbe if only you wore a streimel you would have hundreds of thousands more chassidim. the Rebbe replied I care more about affecting one yeshuvnick in Israel, then making other chassidim my own.
I thought it was because the shviger wouldn't give him the shtreimel.