Messianism among Lubavitch

[Dan]

hes the rav hamachshir there, I know many missnagdim that eat there, go figure

I fail to see how being even from the extreme mishichist camp would affect your kashrus.  Deluded, yes.  But it ain't kfira al pi halacha.

[churnbabychurn]

I fail to see how being even from the extreme mishichist camp would affect your kashrus.  Deluded, yes.  But it ain't kfira al pi halacha.

Maybe not, but trustworthy? Would you invest 20k with the guy

[Dan]

Maybe not, but trustworthy? Would you invest 20k with the guy

For the right investment? Being a mishichist wouldn't stop me.  Often they're better jews than I am, they're just misguided IMHO.

[jj1000]

For the right investment? Being a mishichist wouldn't stop me.  Often they're better jews than I am, they're just misguided IMHO.

Dan you invest with goyim? You know they don't believe the same things you do are you crazy??? How can you trust someone who doesn't share your beliefs?

[churnbabychurn]

For the right investment? Being a mishichist wouldn't stop me.  Often they're better jews than I am, they're just misguided IMHO.

I guess im biased, I see a touch of evil in the whole thing. Its just so foreign to everything I believe. the whole thing is weird to me, who led them astray, why, so many questions....
At least you try to be rational.

[jj1000]

I guess im biased, I see a touch of evil in the whole thing. Its just so foreign to everything I believe. the whole thing is weird to me, who led them astray, why, so many questions....
At least you try to be rational.

Did you read this entire thread?

[churnbabychurn]

Dan you invest with goyim? You know they don't believe the same things you do are you crazy??? How can you trust someone who doesn't share your beliefs?

I meant trust the guy with 20k, would you?

[jj1000]

I meant trust the guy with 20k, would you?

Why the heck not? That's my point? What do beliefs have to do with trust?

[Ergel]

I fail to see how being even from the extreme mishichist camp would affect your kashrus.  Deluded, yes.  But it ain't kfira al pi halacha.

Depends how far you go with it

[churnbabychurn]

Did you read this entire thread?

I have, some guys do try to present a sane sounding point of view but its impossible to sway me. I have what I firmly believe to be the absolute truth.
 I still very firmly against chabad hashkafa. If rational people weren't so emotionally invested in chadad... im sure they deep down also doubt the whole entire thing...

[jj1000]

I have, some guys do try to present a sane sounding point of view but its impossible to sway me. I have what I firmly believe to be the absolute truth.
 I still very firmly against chabad hashkafa. If rational people weren't so emotionally invested in chadad... im sure they deep down also doubt the whole entire thing...

Like you said that's your belief. that word is were this argument started and finished.

[churnbabychurn]

Like you said that's your belief. that word is were this argument started and finished.

Indeed, It all boils down to the 13 principles of faith.

[Dan]

Indeed, It all boils down to the 13 principles of faith.

And which one is violated?
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/332555/jewish/Maimonides-13-Principles-of-Faith.htm

[jj1000]

And which one is violated?
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/332555/jewish/Maimonides-13-Principles-of-Faith.htm

The one that says you don't believe what I was raised believing so just like Christianity and Islam is wrong so too...

(Even if you show me halachik sources.)

[Dan]

This whole thing is all quite funny to me.
We have lots of Lakewooders telling me what I and other lubavitchers believe as if they know the facts and I don't. 
It would be comical if it wasn't so bizarre.  Reminds me of ultra-biased/brainwashed mainstream media coverage of Israel.
The 99% believe nothing of the venom/BS that is spewed in this thread.

Yes, Chabad (specifically Israelis) has more than it's fair share of wackos, but they don't speak for chabad HQ or chabad ideology or mainstream shluchim and chassidim worldwide.
Because there are perhaps 10 "elokistim" in the world let's assume that 400,000 Lubavitchers practice kefira. Ya, that makes sense to me too.

[churnbabychurn]

This whole thing is all quite funny to me.
We have lots of Lakewooders telling me what I and other lubavitchers believe as if they know the facts and I don't. 
It would be comical if it wasn't so bizarre.  Reminds me of ultra-biased/brainwashed mainstream media coverage of Israel.
The 99% believe nothing of the venom/BS that is spewed in this thread.

Yes, Chabad (specifically Israelis) has more than it's fair share of wackos, but they don't speak for chabad HQ or chabad ideology or mainstream shluchim and chassidim worldwide.
Because there are perhaps 10 "elokistim" in the world let's assume that 400,000 Lubavitchers practice kefira. Ya, that makes sense to me too.

Since many aspects of the movement are questionable, why not just stay away.

[churnbabychurn]

This whole thing is all quite funny to me.
We have lots of Lakewooders telling me what I and other lubavitchers believe as if they know the facts and I don't. 
It would be comical if it wasn't so bizarre.  Reminds me of ultra-biased/brainwashed mainstream media coverage of Israel.
The 99% believe nothing of the venom/BS that is spewed in this thread.

Yes, Chabad (specifically Israelis) has more than it's fair share of wackos, but they don't speak for chabad HQ or chabad ideology or mainstream shluchim and chassidim worldwide.
Because there are perhaps 10 "elokistim" in the world let's assume that 400,000 Lubavitchers practice kefira. Ya, that makes sense to me too.

realize that these wakos are following the same man as you. They just interpreted his teachings a little more extreme way than you.

[jj1000]

Since many aspects of the movement are questionable, why not just stay away.

The Messiah Problem: Berger, the Angel and the Scandal of Reckless Indiscrimination

realize that these wakos are following the same man as you. They just interpreted his teachings a little more extreme way than you.

They are following the same Torah as you THEREFORE... Don't believe in the Torah right?

These 2 replies are connected.

[Dan]

realize that these wakos are following the same man as you. They just interpreted his teachings a little more extreme way than you.

You're right.  Burn the whole movement and all the good its done for the world because there are 10 wackos in the world.  Because no other movement have any wackos anyway.

[Dan]

Since many aspects of the movement are questionable, why not just stay away.

There's nothing questionable al pi halacha about believing someone you follow to be moshiach.  Problems arise when people use that as an excuse to stop following the laws of our holy torah, thus the problems with yashka and shabtai tzvi.  And why those wacko elokistim are in cherem.