Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 148595 times)

Offline jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #570 on: January 15, 2013, 11:07:52 PM »
I have, some guys do try to present a sane sounding point of view but its impossible to sway me. I have what I firmly believe to be the absolute truth.
 I still very firmly against chabad hashkafa. If rational people weren't so emotionally invested in chadad... im sure they deep down also doubt the whole entire thing...
Like you said that's your belief. that word is were this argument started and finished.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #571 on: January 15, 2013, 11:08:55 PM »
Like you said that's your belief. that word is were this argument started and finished.
Indeed, It all boils down to the 13 principles of faith.

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #572 on: January 15, 2013, 11:13:44 PM »
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #573 on: January 15, 2013, 11:16:31 PM »
And which one is violated? ???
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/332555/jewish/Maimonides-13-Principles-of-Faith.htm
The one that says you don't believe what I was raised believing so just like Christianity and Islam is wrong so too...

(Even if you show me halachik sources.)
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #574 on: January 15, 2013, 11:17:42 PM »
This whole thing is all quite funny to me.
We have lots of Lakewooders telling me what I and other lubavitchers believe as if they know the facts and I don't. 
It would be comical if it wasn't so bizarre.  Reminds me of ultra-biased/brainwashed mainstream media coverage of Israel.
The 99% believe nothing of the venom/BS that is spewed in this thread.

Yes, Chabad (specifically Israelis) has more than it's fair share of wackos, but they don't speak for chabad HQ or chabad ideology or mainstream shluchim and chassidim worldwide.
Because there are perhaps 10 "elokistim" in the world let's assume that 400,000 Lubavitchers practice kefira. Ya, that makes sense to me too.

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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #575 on: January 15, 2013, 11:23:26 PM »
This whole thing is all quite funny to me.
We have lots of Lakewooders telling me what I and other lubavitchers believe as if they know the facts and I don't. 
It would be comical if it wasn't so bizarre.  Reminds me of ultra-biased/brainwashed mainstream media coverage of Israel.
The 99% believe nothing of the venom/BS that is spewed in this thread.

Yes, Chabad (specifically Israelis) has more than it's fair share of wackos, but they don't speak for chabad HQ or chabad ideology or mainstream shluchim and chassidim worldwide.
Because there are perhaps 10 "elokistim" in the world let's assume that 400,000 Lubavitchers practice kefira. Ya, that makes sense to me too.
Since many aspects of the movement are questionable, why not just stay away.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #576 on: January 15, 2013, 11:25:19 PM »
This whole thing is all quite funny to me.
We have lots of Lakewooders telling me what I and other lubavitchers believe as if they know the facts and I don't. 
It would be comical if it wasn't so bizarre.  Reminds me of ultra-biased/brainwashed mainstream media coverage of Israel.
The 99% believe nothing of the venom/BS that is spewed in this thread.

Yes, Chabad (specifically Israelis) has more than it's fair share of wackos, but they don't speak for chabad HQ or chabad ideology or mainstream shluchim and chassidim worldwide.
Because there are perhaps 10 "elokistim" in the world let's assume that 400,000 Lubavitchers practice kefira. Ya, that makes sense to me too.
realize that these wakos are following the same man as you. They just interpreted his teachings a little more extreme way than you.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #577 on: January 15, 2013, 11:26:40 PM »
Since many aspects of the movement are questionable, why not just stay away.
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realize that these wakos are following the same man as you. They just interpreted his teachings a little more extreme way than you.
They are following the same Torah as you THEREFORE... Don't believe in the Torah right?

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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #578 on: January 15, 2013, 11:27:44 PM »
realize that these wakos are following the same man as you. They just interpreted his teachings a little more extreme way than you.
You're right.  Burn the whole movement and all the good its done for the world because there are 10 wackos in the world.  Because no other movement have any wackos anyway.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #579 on: January 15, 2013, 11:29:35 PM »
Since many aspects of the movement are questionable, why not just stay away.
There's nothing questionable al pi halacha about believing someone you follow to be moshiach.  Problems arise when people use that as an excuse to stop following the laws of our holy torah, thus the problems with yashka and shabtai tzvi.  And why those wacko elokistim are in cherem.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #580 on: January 15, 2013, 11:52:11 PM »
There's nothing questionable al pi halacha about believing someone you follow to be moshiach.  Problems arise when people use that as an excuse to stop following the laws of our holy torah, thus the problems with yashka and shabtai tzvi.  And why those wacko elokistim are in cherem.
historicaly it a slippery slope to idiolize a human.
Btw even according to you half the movement are wakos albeit not kofrim.

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #581 on: January 15, 2013, 11:58:35 PM »
historicaly it a slippery slope to idiolize a human.
Btw even according to you half the movement are wakos albeit not kofrim.
Same tired part lines.
1. Nobody (besides the wackos in cherem) is idolizing anyone.
2. I never said half of Chabad are wackos. Don't twist my words.
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #582 on: January 16, 2013, 12:05:37 AM »
I fail to see how being even from the extreme mishichist camp would affect your kashrus.  Deluded, yes.  But it ain't kfira al pi halacha.
As long as the guy's not an elokist, i never really understood how thinking a dead person is moshiach can be called kefira. I do admit there are some in my camp who believe it's kefira, i have no clue where they're coming from.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #583 on: January 16, 2013, 12:10:27 AM »
As long as the guy's not an elokist, i never really understood how thinking a dead person is moshiach can be called kefira. I do admit there are some in my camp who believe it's kefira, i have no clue where they're coming from.
Finally.  A non-baiting post.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #584 on: January 16, 2013, 12:10:36 AM »
Has anything good come out of this thread?
Seems to me that nobody is going to change anyone's mind even one iota.

Should I lock it?
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