Messianism among Lubavitch

[churnbabychurn]

There's nothing questionable al pi halacha about believing someone you follow to be moshiach.  Problems arise when people use that as an excuse to stop following the laws of our holy torah, thus the problems with yashka and shabtai tzvi.  And why those wacko elokistim are in cherem.

historicaly it a slippery slope to idiolize a human.
Btw even according to you half the movement are wakos albeit not kofrim.

[Dan]

historicaly it a slippery slope to idiolize a human.
Btw even according to you half the movement are wakos albeit not kofrim.

Same tired part lines.
1. Nobody (besides the wackos in cherem) is idolizing anyone.
2. I never said half of Chabad are wackos. Don't twist my words.

[Lamdan]

I fail to see how being even from the extreme mishichist camp would affect your kashrus.  Deluded, yes.  But it ain't kfira al pi halacha.

As long as the guy's not an elokist, i never really understood how thinking a dead person is moshiach can be called kefira. I do admit there are some in my camp who believe it's kefira, i have no clue where they're coming from.

[Dan]

As long as the guy's not an elokist, i never really understood how thinking a dead person is moshiach can be called kefira. I do admit there are some in my camp who believe it's kefira, i have no clue where they're coming from.

Finally.  A non-baiting post.

[Dan]

Has anything good come out of this thread?
Seems to me that nobody is going to change anyone's mind even one iota.

Should I lock it?

[Ergel]

I support that motion
Maybe just delete it altogether

[robi]

I actually found it interesting and a bit informative

[moko]

I found it entertaining

[jj1000]

Has anything good come out of this thread?
Seems to me that nobody is going to change anyone's mind even one iota.

Should I lock it?

Maybe the fact that nothing good came out is a good reason to leave it as testament.

[Dan]

I actually found it interesting and a bit informative

If you don't mind my asking, what's your background and what did you find useful?

[Saver2000]

I actually found it interesting and a bit informative

+1
Although the posts with specific names were a little much.

[Lamdan]

I learned that many lubavitchers today have moderated their views about the Rebbe and Moshiach. This gives me great hope for the future of Chabad, the Chassidus founded by the Shulchan Aruch Harav, whom i'm absolutely obsessed with his shulchan aruch , and the gaonus that lies inside of it. I definitely was educated by this thread.

[robi]

If you don't mind my asking, what's your background and what did you find useful?

i come from a Hungarian background, so chassidus isn't foreign to me, but went to (very) litvish yeshivas. Some of our closest family friends are lubavitch. And

I learned that many lubavitchers today have moderated their views about the Rebbe and Moshiach. This gives me great hope for the future of Chabad, the Chassidus founded by the Shulchan harav. I definitely was educated by this thread.

[Ergel]

1. Sanhedrin 98b
2. None of them brought any qualification other than that the name matches a Passuk that speaks about Moshiach (yes. Menachem is included)

Not so pashut that that is the correct pshat in the gemara

[yare]

It's pointless arguing with people like him.  That type will enjoy a minyan with fresh food in Timbuktu and then spit on their way out.  I've seen it with my own 2 eyes.

pretty funny that you refer to "people like him," without knowing a thing about "people like him" other than that he thinks your ideology is problematic and that your rebbe wasnt the nasi hador.            unlike some people around here, i don't believe in bashing behind peoples backs, and if i wanted to spit, i would do it on the way in.

i would daven b'yichidus in timbuktu.  and i wouldn't eat the food of mishichists, not anywhere.   now you know a bit more about "people like him"

I fail to see how being even from the extreme mishichist camp would affect your kashrus.  Deluded, yes.  But it ain't kfira al pi halacha.

because if someone has a din of a tipish/shoteh, then they would not be reliable as far as kashrus is concerned. at least not in my book (or those of many others careful about what they eat).   

[moish]

no reason to lock the thread.

you have to appreciate the honest debate going on

[churnbabychurn]

I say Lock the thread, anything civilized that can be said has been said. For sure we can all keep going in circles but the debate level can only deteriorate from here. 

[moish]

I say Lock the thread, anything civilized that can be said has been said. For sure we can all keep going in circles but the debate level can only deteriorate from here. 

so if and when it deteriorates, lock it; why now?

[churnbabychurn]

Im about to take the gloves off 

[chaimmayer]

because if someone has a din of a tipish/shoteh, then they would not be reliable as far as kashrus is concerned. at least not in my book (or those of many others careful about what they eat).   

You are fooling yourself if you think you can eat from any hashgacha that does not employ them.