Author Topic: Messianism among Lubavitch  (Read 146304 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #645 on: January 16, 2013, 02:48:25 PM »
And the circle turns once again...

How many times was this already answered in this thread?

The Alter Rebbe or any other Tzaddik who ever lived wasn't our Rebbe.
I don't see why that's such a difficult concept to grasp.
+1
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #646 on: January 16, 2013, 02:49:19 PM »
Bechezkas moshiach is not the same thing as saying a possible candidate for moshiach.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #647 on: January 16, 2013, 02:49:32 PM »
I try to imagine if you all were at the rebbes inauguration and debut, where at his first public speech as a young, newly minted rebbe, after studying engineering in college for a few years he basically alluded to the fact that he thinks of himself as the moshiach whether you would have questioned him or be pulled in by his brilliance and charisma?
Now your all to emotionally invested to admit that you where missled. This is my personal opinion, Im sure you'l vehemently argue.

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #648 on: January 16, 2013, 02:52:03 PM »
Because he was ours.  Same goes for the Belz story with their Rebbe.  Moshiach goes by the generation.
As there hasn't been a new Rebbe the children now can choose to adopt him as Rebbe based on his teachings or not, that's their choice.
Show me where it is stated in any chassidic sefer that there's an inyan to think that YOUR rebbe is mashiach bec. he's your rebbe. And don't tell me the gemara in sanhedrin. And don't tell me a recent chabad sefer.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #649 on: January 16, 2013, 02:54:10 PM »
Show me where it is stated in any chassidic sefer that there's an inyan to think that YOUR rebbe is mashiach bec. he's your rebbe. And don't tell me the gemara in sanhedrin. And don't tell me a recent chabad sefer.
I've already said, it's a hergesh that is natural as part of a Rebbe-Chosid relationship.  This isn't something that's printed.
Perhaps you missed this post? I'll repeat for your sake.


You're telling me that no other chosid believes his rebbe is a candidate to be moshiach?
You are delusional once again in that case.

They don't think about who moshiach is. The only people that think about who's a candidate for moshiach, are chabadskers, this is the facts, I am not delusional.

and there is no other chasiddus that espouses such beliefs.  if you claim otherwise, show a source.

They may not say it publicly, but I hate to break it to you guys...you are dead wrong.  And here is confirmation from someone whom I had the pleasure of meeting and can confirm is most definitely a chosid and not of the lubavitch persuasion.

This is a simple outcome of the rebbe-chosid relationship, and something that scared the misnagdim for centuries.

+1

Nobody would consider "belz" as a meshichist chasidis. I heard once from the Belze Rebbe, by a yahrteit tish of the prebious rebber R' Aron TZ"L:
"we all believe that the uncle (R' Aron) was meshiach, and if he wasn't, he had the ability to be".
I learned from that, that actually every chasid should think on his Rebbe, that he is Meshiach, or at least have the ability of being Mashiach.

Thank you for the confirmation.  As I thought, the difference is very minute-just a question of how the belief is publicized.
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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #650 on: January 16, 2013, 02:54:16 PM »
Bechezkas moshiach is not the same thing as saying a possible candidate for moshiach.
They don't think about who moshiach is. The only people that think about who's a candidate for moshiach, are chabadskers, this is the facts, I am not delusional.
@Lamdan- For intellectual honesty in this conversation, can you please admit to being delusional. Truly there is no reason to ever discus this further if you can't do that.
I seriously want to tell you to just shove it until you admit your delusion.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #651 on: January 16, 2013, 02:55:16 PM »
And the circle turns once again...

How many times was this already answered in this thread?

The Alter Rebbe or any other Tzaddik who ever lived wasn't our Rebbe.
I don't see why that's such a difficult concept to grasp.

Does the fact that he was your Rebbe make him more qualified? Or does it make you want it to be him?

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #652 on: January 16, 2013, 02:55:29 PM »
  @Lamdan- For intellectual honesty in this conversation, can you please admit to being delusional. Truly there is no reason to ever discus this further if you can't do that.
 I seriously want to tell you to just shove it until you admit your delusion.
whats your point?
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #653 on: January 16, 2013, 02:55:32 PM »
I try to imagine if you all were at the rebbes inauguration and debut, where at his first public speech as a young, newly minted rebbe, after studying engineering in college for a few years he basically alluded to the fact that he thinks of himself as the moshiach whether you would have questioned him or be pulled in by his brilliance and charisma?
Now your all to emotionally invested to admit that you where missled. This is my personal opinion, Im sure you'l vehemently argue.
He never said he was moshiach.  If anything he said that the previous rebbe, his rebbe, was moshiach.
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #654 on: January 16, 2013, 02:56:17 PM »
Does the fact that he was your Rebbe make him more qualified? Or does it make you want it to be him?
It's a borderline insane thing, this my rebbe is mashiach. ROFL!! LMAO!!
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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #655 on: January 16, 2013, 02:57:52 PM »
whats your point?
You said no one besides chabad thinks about who moshiach is. and that you are not delusional. Because you are wrong on this point, just admit that you are delusional then we can move on.

Through out this thread you called many things facts so when your "facts" are wrong admit it.
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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #656 on: January 16, 2013, 02:59:40 PM »
I don't want to get involved in this quagmire, but a lot of people in Montreal stopped following r' hirshprung zt'l after he wrote that letter, including the rosh yeshiva r motel Weinberg zt'l
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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #657 on: January 16, 2013, 03:01:42 PM »
You said no one besides chabad thinks about who moshiach is. and that you are not delusional. Because you are wrong on this point, just admit that you are delusional then we can move on.

Through out this thread you called many things facts so when your "facts" are wrong admit it.
I don't agree that chassidim believe their rebbe is mashiach, what part of that don't you understand?
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #658 on: January 16, 2013, 03:02:10 PM »
I don't want to get involved in this quagmire, but a lot of people in Montreal stopped following r' hirshprung zt'l after he wrote that letter, including the rosh yeshiva r motel Weinberg zt'l
Do they have a response to it?
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Offline Dan

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Re: Messianism among Lubavitch
« Reply #659 on: January 16, 2013, 03:02:53 PM »
I don't agree that chassidim believe their rebbe is mashiach, what part of that don't you understand?
You're right. SI was lying about his own sect and the other sect he mentioned.
It's funny which stuff you're "mekabel" and which you're not.
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