Author Topic: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025  (Read 35781 times)

Offline justaregularguy

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #100 on: January 19, 2025, 11:46:08 AM »
BH the hostages are alive, in no need of immediate medical care, and with their mothers.
הוֹדוּ לַה כּי־טוֹב כִּי לְעוֹלָם חַסְדּוֹ!!!
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline TimT

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #101 on: January 19, 2025, 01:37:27 PM »
BH the hostages are alive, in no need of immediate medical care, and with their mothers.
הוֹדוּ לַה כּי־טוֹב כִּי לְעוֹלָם חַסְדּוֹ!!!
Lets continue praying for them. They need lots of other care. They’ve been to the worst hell and back.

Offline Dan

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #102 on: January 19, 2025, 01:40:58 PM »


This video says it all. Please circulate
:'(
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Chilla

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #103 on: January 19, 2025, 02:04:10 PM »


This video says it all. Please circulate
Never heard it better articulated!
When Shalit was freed, did all Lubavitchers understand that celebrating would be comparable to yenne gishmei brocha?

Offline longtimelurker23

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2025, 02:20:21 PM »
So, people are looking forward to a strike on Khomeini's nuclear facilities as a condition of the IL going along with the Trump-Biden deal. Doesn't the protracted nature of the release give the Iranians breathing room to move towards a workable bomb? Any strike could derail the continued release of the hostages.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #105 on: January 19, 2025, 02:31:48 PM »
Never heard it better articulated!
When Shalit was freed, did all Lubavitchers understand that celebrating would be comparable to yenne gishmei brocha?

I think when Shalit was freed everyone in their right mind realized that it was terrible.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #106 on: January 19, 2025, 02:52:00 PM »
I think when Shalit was freed everyone in their right mind realized that it was terrible.
Yes, that deal was much worse then this.
It was onlt done to Save Bibi from the left wing media.

Online Chester7

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #107 on: January 19, 2025, 04:35:31 PM »
Yes, that deal was much worse then this.
It was onlt done to Save Bibi from the left wing media.
Was the only reason it was much worse, was because of the ratio?

Offline Yehuda57

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Offline yitzgar

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #110 on: January 19, 2025, 10:59:51 PM »
https://anash.org/does-halacha-differentiate-between-redeeming-captives-and-exchanging-hostages/
There's an important point that was left out. Historically, in the times of chazal, the reason to take Jewish captives was in order to make money, so refusing to pay would discourage future kidnappings. In our current situation, they are motivated to Rachmana litzlan do terrible things regardless. If they don't feel they will get what they want in exchange for hostages, they just won't have an incentive to keep them alive...

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #111 on: January 20, 2025, 03:57:23 AM »
There's an important point that was left out. Historically, in the times of chazal, the reason to take Jewish captives was in order to make money, so refusing to pay would discourage future kidnappings. In our current situation, they are motivated to Rachmana litzlan do terrible things regardless. If they don't feel they will get what they want in exchange for hostages, they just won't have an incentive to keep them alive...
והיא הנותנת
The entire discussion of the Halachah of not buying back captives at over market values, is at the end of the day irrelevant.

In that case, the captors want *money*, so ransoming the captives with *money* will result in further captives be taken for their ever higher *money* value. Therefore, as noted in the article, many achronim rule that we do in fact ransom at exorbitant rates if the captives are in imminent danger of losing their lives. We therefore pay a lot of *money* to save *lives* even if that will later cost further *money*.

In the case of hamas and similar, their entire goal is to murder as many Jews as possible. In furtherance of that goal, they take hostages, and then in exchange for Jewish *lives* they demand the men, arms, money, and PR needed to further take other Jewish *lives*. How many *lives* is market value for *lives*?! How can you say "Let's save these *lives* by giving them the means to take other *lives*"? You cannot compare the halachos of trading *money* for *lives* at the cost of further *money* to the case of trading *lives* for *lives*!

והאריכות בזה אך למותר

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #112 on: January 20, 2025, 04:06:06 AM »
Side points:

1) The rayeh from the Maharam is misplaced, we can assume he wasn't in imminent danger of losing his life (he lived in captivity for decades) so there is no rayeh that we don'transom in cases where people are in danger of death.

2) One thing we do see from this halacha is that we decide today's actions based on the future outcome, and we don't say some version of "we'll cross that bridge when come to it". Big kashyeh on those who taineh that the immediate danger to these lives r"l is the crucial factor, and we'll need to deal with the risks of released terrorists at a later date.

3) The hypocrisy of the Charedim in shouting "pikuach nefesh!!!!" and then pre-registering a yes vote and ditching the briefing so they won't be mechalel shabbos is stunning. If you sincerely believed this deal is for saving lives, you must be mechalel shabbos to weigh the pros and cons! Your kugel can't wait?!

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #113 on: January 20, 2025, 04:08:25 AM »
I think when Shalit was freed everyone in their right mind realized that it was terrible.
The crazy thing is it's never the government that sees it. It's beyond understanding.

I was surprised when I learned recently that Tzipi Livni was against the Shalit deal. Till I made the cheshbon and realized she wasn't in the government at that point. Big kuntz to be against it from the opposition.

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #114 on: January 20, 2025, 04:10:43 AM »
At the very least, IMHO, Israel should not be releasing video clips of the return of the hostages. The clips of Bibi speaking to them on the phone, the mothers tearfully watching the videos of them entering Israel, heartbreaking and heartwarming as they are, each one is a piece of Hamas propaganda, and is very not good for the Jews

Online zh cohen

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #115 on: January 20, 2025, 06:11:15 AM »
3) The hypocrisy of the Charedim in shouting "pikuach nefesh!!!!" and then pre-registering a yes vote and ditching the briefing so they won't be mechalel shabbos is stunning. If you sincerely believed this deal is for saving lives, you must be mechalel shabbos to weigh the pros and cons! Your kugel can't wait?!

Why is it hypocrisy to minimize the chilul Shabbos, when doing so did not change anything regarding the pikuach nefesh? Would their staying and being mechalel Shabbos have changed anything? Unless you are saying that they should have stayed because of "מצוה בגדול."

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #116 on: January 20, 2025, 06:19:27 AM »
...when doing so did not change anything regarding the pikuach nefesh? Would their staying and being mechalel Shabbos have changed anything? ...

So the 7 hour government briefing was a farce? The charedi parties were determined to vote for the deal even without hearing all the details?

Best part is that the meeting was originally scheduled for after shabbos, but was moved up, because pikuach nefesh is docheh shabbos. Then the charedim left early, leaving others to do their chilul shabbos for them.

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #117 on: January 20, 2025, 06:56:38 AM »
The charedi parties were determined to vote for the deal even without hearing all the details?

Yes (as evidenced by the fact that they voted yes without hearing all of the details).

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #118 on: January 20, 2025, 07:02:19 AM »
Yes (as evidenced by the fact that they voted yes without hearing all of the details).

And that's a defense?

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Re: 2nd Israel - Hamas Hostage Deal Jan 2025
« Reply #119 on: January 20, 2025, 07:44:57 AM »
And that's a defense?

A defense of their support for the deal? No.

A defense of their decision not to stay around on Shabbos? Absolutely yes. Them staying would not have done anything to save any lives.