Interesting Articles...

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Do you have such a poll regarding Jews?

I am now invoking a new rule. You want me to answer your questions (I always do) then mine will have to be answered first.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Very different. There's always polls saying who Jews voted for.

I don't see it any different as many polls are broken down how blacks vote but not Jews.

[skyguy918]

I am now invoking a new rule. You want me to answer your questions (I always do) then mine will have to be answered first.

Don't you know a Jew always answers a question with a question?

If a poll showed that black people said they voted for Obama simply because he is black, then it certainly would not be despicable for a news agency to report on that poll. It wouldn't reflect well on black people as a whole, but it would be legitimate reporting.

But, as you're probably aware, that's not remotely what happened here. The NYT is using flimsy correlations to intimate that democratic senators voting against the deal are doing so purely due to the influence of Jews, or in the interests of Israel over the interests of Israel.

That is despicable.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

But, as you're probably aware, that's not remotely what happened here. The NYT is using flimsy correlations to intimate that democratic senators voting against the deal are doing so purely due to the influence of Jews, or in the interests of Israel over the interests of Israel.

That is despicable.

I am not aware that is what they are trying to do but I won't put it past them. If that is what they are trying to do then that is despicable. What are you considering flimsy correlations?

[TimT]

This is meant to intimidate the lawmakers that somehow they're selling out or more loyal to Jews & Israel. (As if the only reason to oppose it is Israel ) They would never do this if jews had an Al Sharpton & his rent-a-thugs.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

This is meant to intimidate the lawmakers that somehow they're selling out or more loyal to Jews & Israel. (As if the only reason to oppose it is Israel ) They would never do this if jews had an Al Sharpton & his rent-a-thugs.

Fox News sure would and has done it.

If I see a poll that blacks vote for democrats 95% of the time then all of a sudden the vote for Ben Carson at a 95% clip you can be damn sure they will raise some red flags.

[skyguy918]

Fox News sure would and has done it.

If I see a poll that blacks vote for democrats 95% of the time then all of a sudden the vote for Ben Carson at a 95% clip you can be damn sure they will raise some red flags.

I think that's wrong too, though surely you'll admit to a gap in the quantity and quality of 'circumstantial evidence' in the 2 scenarios.

But more importantly, that logic would backfire here. What percentage of Jewish Senators are voting for and against the deal?

And btw, you forgot to answer my question from earlier, after I answered yours

[ChaimMoskowitz]

And btw, you forgot to answer my question from earlier, after I answered yours

That would be, no.

If there was a poll that showed Jewish senators always voted for Israel and against there party I would say that s a red flag. The opposite is also true. If certain senators always voted against Israel and their party then that would also be a red flag. 

[TimT]

Fox News sure would and has done it.

If I see a poll that blacks vote for democrats 95% of the time then all of a sudden the vote for Ben Carson at a 95% clip you can be damn sure they will raise some red flags.

Again, this is not about who a group voted for. For that there's already polls about where jews stand on this issue. They even admit that more jewish politicians are for the deal. Its about going after the the opposition & at the same time make it look like the Jews are controlling them. Lets see them do such a chart for every lawmaker that's pro-immigration & every lawmaker that sides with blacks against the cops.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Again, this is not about who a group voted for. For that there's already polls about where jews stand on this issue. They even admit that more jewish politicians are for the deal. Its about going after the the opposition & at the same time make it look like the Jews are controlling them. Lets see them do such a chart for every lawmaker that's pro-immigration & every lawmaker that sides with blacks against the cops.

Would it be fair to say the problem is how they are using the poll not the poll itself?

[skyguy918]

Would it be fair to say the problem is how they are using the poll not the poll itself?

I think there's some misunderstanding here. What poll are you referring to? The NYT piece contained no poll. It just listed whether the dissenting democrats were Jewish or not, what the percentage of Jews is in their state/district, and what percentage of the time the senator/representative voted with the democratic party line.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Is this better?

Would it be fair to say the problem is how they are using the chart not the chart itself?

[skyguy918]

Is this better?

Semantics. The very composition of the chart makes no sense and is inflammatory.

[TimT]

Is this better?

Sounds like the same thing to me. What other reason is there for that chart ?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

The very composition of the chart makes no sense...

Will agree with this but only because it only covers one vote. If they want to make a correlation they are going to need a lot more data than that.

[henche]

Why? If a poll showed that blacks voted for Obama just because he was black would that be "utterly despicable"?

Good point.  How come the NY Times didn't run a side by side showing which black congressmen are voting for the Iran deal, along with what percentage of their constituency is black?  Would be useful data points on why certain congressmen vote together with Obama, no?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Good point.  How come the NY Times didn't run a side by side showing which black congressmen are voting for the Iran deal, along with what percentage of their constituency is black?  Would be useful data points on why certain congressmen vote together with Obama, no?

You should ask the NY Times that question. As to your second question it would not be useful data to me. I already know the answer. 

[henche]

You should ask the NY Times that question. As to your second question it would not be useful data to me. I already know the answer. 

So my point being, that of course it would be wildly inappropriate to do that. But they have no problem doing that with Jews, apparently.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

So my point being, that of course it would be wildly inappropriate to do that. But they have no problem doing that with Jews, apparently.

My point is I don't agree with your point.

[Yammer]

I have to say I like the debate. I always try to think when we say anti Semites if we would say the same with other minorities.

On this case based on the NYT stance on Israel and the Iran deal I would say that their intention was to put the Jewish lawmakers in an uncomfortable situation. But I'm not sure that the concept had it come from different news outlets ( with some slight changes ) would be anti Semitic