Author Topic: Interesting Articles...  (Read 1072840 times)

Offline Ergel

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5985 on: January 18, 2017, 07:18:58 AM »
Only if I thought Nixon didn't break the law.
Still confused. Never said Nixon didn't break the law. Never said it was OK.
Pardoning has nothing to do with it being OK.
It has to do with something being in the best interests of the country or other extenuating circumstances which dictate the criminal shouldn't be prosecuted/serve their sentence
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5986 on: January 18, 2017, 07:47:32 AM »
You are confusing whistleblowing with illegal acts. If you commit an illegal act then you get prosecuted for that act, period!!!

Wow you completely ignored that I addressed this in the quote you replied to.
Next.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5987 on: January 18, 2017, 07:49:51 AM »
so "Russia" is to be glorified?

Not sure why you can't differentiate between spying and whistleblowing.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5988 on: January 18, 2017, 07:52:05 AM »
Still confused. Never said Nixon didn't break the law. Never said it was OK.
Pardoning has nothing to do with it being OK.
It has to do with something being in the best interests of the country or other extenuating circumstances which dictate the criminal shouldn't be prosecuted/serve their sentence
I totally disagree. I don't move the goalpost. You do the crime you do the time.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5989 on: January 18, 2017, 07:54:50 AM »
Wow you completely ignored that I addressed this in the quote you replied to.
Next.
My view on this is simple and straightforward. You don't see it that way and I understand that.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5990 on: January 18, 2017, 08:05:36 AM »
The whistleblower defense is 100% bs! If his intentions were to uncover wrongdoing, he would have released only those records that were relevant to the wrongdoing. He would have sent it directly to a reporter, not to wikileaks. Releasing the names of American assets in foreign countries, and putting their lives at risk is not whistleblowing.

He downloaded as much data as he could, and the evidence of wrongdoing happened to be part of it. The whistleblowing was secondary to his primary goal which was to leak as much data as possible.

Most of the time you need to download everything if you wanna have evidence to prove crimes.
It's not like theirs a shared folder named "covered up war crimes" on every intelligent official's computer.

Just curious, what do you think his motives were- he's a Russian spy? Chinese?

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5991 on: January 18, 2017, 08:07:59 AM »
My view on this is simple and straightforward. You don't see it that way and I understand that.

I would say it's overly simple if it includes ignoring facts to form opinions.
Explain to me how someone can legally whistleblow the crimes they see intelligence agencies commit?
Hint: they can't.

Edit: Trying to understand- is it your view that gov and intelligence agencies should get away with any crimes they commit against their fellow citizens? If not, do you think the whistleblowing laws are sufficiently protect whistleblowers to ensure there are checks and balances?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 08:13:14 AM by yuneeq »

Offline aygart

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5992 on: January 18, 2017, 08:27:39 AM »
Considering he has been one of the most transparent and corruption free president we have had your question is loaded.
How was Obama transparent?

As far as corruption goes there has been little except for one VERY VERY big one in the IRS hindering political opposition. That is arguably one of the worst cases of corruption ever. But he was succesful in stonewalling that investigation.

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline aygart

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5993 on: January 18, 2017, 08:30:12 AM »
You are confusing whistleblowing with illegal acts. If you commit an illegal act then you get prosecuted for that act, period!!!
In theory this could have been a case where the only way to whistleblow is by doing things illegal except that
The whistleblower defense is 100% bs! If his intentions were to uncover wrongdoing, he would have released only those records that were relevant to the wrongdoing. He would have sent it directly to a reporter, not to wikileaks. Releasing the names of American assets in foreign countries, and putting their lives at risk is not whistleblowing.

He downloaded as much data as he could, and the evidence of wrongdoing happened to be part of it. The whistleblowing was secondary to his primary goal which was to leak as much data as possible.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5994 on: January 18, 2017, 08:37:13 AM »
Not sure why you can't differentiate between spying and whistleblowing.

Why is what Russia did not whistleblowing about the coulussion between the DNC and Clinton?

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5995 on: January 18, 2017, 08:46:58 AM »
Most of the time you need to download everything if you wanna have evidence to prove crimes.

What does that have to do with releasing everything? Even Snowden didn't publish everything he took (although he presumably gave it all to the Russians)

Just curious, what do you think his motives were- he's a Russian spy? Chinese?

Maybe he is a true believer in "radical transparency", and thinks governments shouldn't have secrets.

Or he was "acting out" because of his psychological issues.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5996 on: January 18, 2017, 08:49:39 AM »
Why is what Russia did not whistleblowing about the coulussion between the DNC and Clinton?

In this particular incident I think their actions were extremely beneficial to US citizens and to ensuring that the US remains a legitimate democracy. If Hillary won the election, I would not consider her the legitimate president after the DNC colluded against Bernie supporters to ensure that Hillary was nominated.

A big distinction between Russia and Manning is that there is no question that Russia did not have Americas interest in mind while Mannings intentions were arguably to serve his country.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5997 on: January 18, 2017, 09:31:42 AM »
I would say it's overly simple if it includes ignoring facts to form opinions.
Explain to me how someone can legally whistleblow the crimes they see intelligence agencies commit?
Hint: they can't.

Edit: Trying to understand- is it your view that gov and intelligence agencies should get away with any crimes they commit against their fellow citizens? If not, do you think the whistleblowing laws are sufficiently protect whistleblowers to ensure there are checks and balances?
I get it you feel we need the whistleblowers to keep the agencies somewhat in check. Do I have that right? I have nothing against whistleblowers per say. If they break the law then they must face the music. If you feel the laws are to strict or unfair then you fight to change the laws. You don't give them a free pass!

Haven't you done something you believe in knowing there could be negative consequences?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5998 on: January 18, 2017, 09:32:04 AM »
What does that have to do with releasing everything? Even Snowden didn't publish everything he took (although he presumably gave it all to the Russians)

Maybe he is a true believer in "radical transparency", and thinks governments shouldn't have secrets.

Or he was "acting out" because of his psychological issues.

He didn't release everything.
Wikileaks did. (I don't remember if Wikileaks actually released EVERYTHING but either way it sounds like they leaked TOO MUCH.)

Regarding his motives- this is a man who volunteered to die for his country.
Here's some things he wrote in private messages BEFORE he got caught.

"hypothetical question: if you had free reign [sic] over classified networks for long periods of time ... say, 89 months ... and you saw incredible things, awful things ... things that belonged in the public domain, and not on some server stored in a dark room in Washington DC ... what would you do? ...say ... a database of half a million events during the iraq war ... from 2004 to 2009 ... with reports, date time groups, lat-lon locations, casualty figures ...? or 260,000 state department cables from embassies and consulates all over the world, explaining how the first world exploits the third, in detail, from an internal perspective? ..."

Though yes, he did commit a crime, he was also mentally unwell and I can imagine that could have affected his poor decision making. "Back at Fort Drum, (s)he continued to display emotional problems and, by August 2009, had been referred to an Army mental-health counselor."

Offline aygart

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5999 on: January 18, 2017, 09:40:24 AM »


He didn't release everything.
Wikileaks did. (I don't remember if Wikileaks actually released EVERYTHING but either way it sounds like they leaked TOO much
And who released it to Wikileaks?

Mommy I didn't hit him my hand did.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.