Author Topic: Interesting Articles...  (Read 1072822 times)

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6000 on: January 18, 2017, 09:44:39 AM »
I get it you feel we need the whistleblowers to keep the agencies somewhat in check. Do I have that right? I have nothing against whistleblowers per say. If they break the law then they must face the music. If you feel the laws are to strict or unfair then you fight to change the laws. You don't give them a free pass!

Haven't you done something you believe in knowing there could be negative consequences?

1. If your argument is that whistleblowers break the law and therefore they must face the music no matter how good the cause- ie; throw the book at them for doing something illegal yet 100% ethical and moral- then you should be fine with Obama using his legal right to pardon or commute his sentencing. If you have a problem with Obama's legal rights you should fight to change the laws.

2. Whistleblowers have nothing personal to gain and can only lose big time. So the best way to ensure we have checks and balances is by throwing the book at whistleblowers and expecting others to follow in their ways? And no, I would never be so stupid and selfish (to my family) to rot 35 years in prison for "the Greater Good".

Offline JTZ

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6001 on: January 18, 2017, 09:57:13 AM »
1. If your argument is that whistleblowers break the law and therefore they must face the music no matter how good the cause- ie; throw the book at them for doing something illegal yet 100% ethical and moral- then you should be fine with Obama using his legal right to pardon or commute his sentencing. If you have a problem with Obama's legal rights you should fight to change the laws.
The problem is you feel it is a good cause. You feel it is 100% ethical and moral. My point is you, I or the president should not be making those decisions. We have a court system that is flawed at times but it is the best in the world. They make those decisions.

From the beginning I have said this is one law I would like to see changed. The president and governors should not have this power.
And no, I would never be so stupid and selfish (to my family) to rot 35 years in prison for "the Greater Good".
That is not what I asked you. What if it was probation, 1 day in jail, 10, year, or years? What if was losing a job? How about being an outcast to your community? We all have different pressure points.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Dan

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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6003 on: January 18, 2017, 10:02:31 AM »
And who released it to Wikileaks?

Mommy I didn't hit him my hand did.

Leaking and releasing are not the same thing.
I looked it up now and it seems that Wikileaks didn't actually release everything.
There is also legal distinction in regards to who he leaks to. If he put everything online for everyone to download, then I would call that releasing everything himself. If you consider Wikileaks to be like journalists (I do) then it's their responsibility to only release information that they deem legal to release. Leakers do this all the time, giving lots of information to journalists and only certain things get released.

A more apt analogy would be "Mommy I didn't hit him, but I helped Joe hit him."

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6004 on: January 18, 2017, 10:17:08 AM »
The problem is you feel it is a good cause. You feel it is 100% ethical and moral. My point is you, I or the president should not be making those decisions. We have a court system that is flawed at times but it is the best in the world. They make those decisions.

From the beginning I have said this is one law I would like to see changed. The president and governors should not have this power. That is not what I asked you. What if it was probation, 1 day in jail, 10, year, or years? What if was losing a job? How about being an outcast to your community? We all have different pressure points.

1. Wrong, you're confusing what I said about Manning and whistleblowers in general. Manning wasn't 100% right for what he did. He deserved some time and he paid for his actions. The problem I mentioned earlier is that other whistleblowers may be 100% ethically right for whistleblowing yet still face the full force of the law.

2. Court isn't about judging a persons ethics or morals. It's about judging whether a crime was committed. Obama was granted the power to judge ethical wrongdoings and he used that right to my satisfaction. If you ask me, that right was granted specifically because the court can't always get it right, they are bound by the law no matter how wrong it might be.

3. No one can claim to be smart enough to know how much they will suffer. The current laws are extremely complicated and almost never protect whistleblowers. You can probably understand how  that doesn't encourage whistleblowing.

Offline aygart

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6005 on: January 18, 2017, 10:40:11 AM »
The problem is you feel it is a good cause. You feel it is 100% ethical and moral. My point is you, I or the president should not be making those decisions. We have a court system that is flawed at times but it is the best in the world. They make those decisions.
Our entire government is based on checks and balances. The Framers felt there needed to be a check on the court's power. Giving the Executive the power to pardon and commute is a reasonable check on that power and an easy way to right any injustices done by the courts as well as to judge when there are cases where it is in the interest of the country for an exception to be made.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6006 on: January 18, 2017, 10:48:03 AM »
Our entire government is based on checks and balances. The Framers felt there needed to be a check on the court's power. Giving the Executive the power to pardon and commute is a reasonable check on that power and an easy way to right any injustices done by the courts as well as to judge when there are cases where it is in the interest of the country for an exception to be made.

Well said.
Imagine someone like Rosa Parks got thrown in jail for sitting in front of the bus, using the white mans bathroom, and committing similar illegal activities. I would like my president to stand up for what's just and right and pardon the "criminal" instead of waiting for the civil rights act to get passed.

Offline Dan

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Offline aygart

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You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Menachem613

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Offline Dan

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6010 on: January 18, 2017, 11:51:23 AM »
Can you define "fundamentalist"?
There are a strict list of rules and punishments are meted out to all infidels?
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Offline Menachem613

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6011 on: January 18, 2017, 02:19:31 PM »
There are a strict list of rules and punishments are meted out to all infidels?

Sounds like a yeshiva

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6012 on: January 18, 2017, 02:47:37 PM »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline AsherO

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6013 on: January 18, 2017, 03:28:57 PM »
There are a strict list of rules and punishments are meted out to all infidels?

If their biggest weapon is boycott, then their bite is really a bark, no biggle (relative to actual fundamentalists).
PGF24BMGS

Offline Dan

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