Interesting Articles...

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Where did you see that in what he wrote?

Simple. Non-Jew, Jew.

That is why I asked the question so I don't misunderstand what he is saying.

Why do you need to butt in every time I ask a member a question?

[shwarmabob]

So you are saying the only people in the world that feel it is legitimate for the annex are Jews?

Incorrect. Everyone should feel that it belongs to Israel regardless of religion or ethnicity. How do you feel about Florida belonging to the US instead of Spain? Or the Mayotte island belonging to France despite several UN resolutions stating it otherwise?

https://www.meforum.org/articles/2018/france-is-hypocritical-on-israel,-u-s-and-interna?utm_source=Middle+East+Forum&utm_campaign=fcce54a580-Gurfinkiel_CAMPAIGN_2018_05_29_02_05&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_086cfd423c-fcce54a580-33619161&goal=0_086cfd423c-fcce54a580-33619161

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Incorrect. Everyone should feel that it belongs to Israel regardless of religion or ethnicity. How do you feel about Florida belonging to the US instead of Spain? Or the Mayotte island belonging to France despite several UN resolutions stating it otherwise?

https://www.meforum.org/articles/2018/france-is-hypocritical-on-israel,-u-s-and-interna?utm_source=Middle+East+Forum&utm_campaign=fcce54a580-Gurfinkiel_CAMPAIGN_2018_05_29_02_05&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_086cfd423c-fcce54a580-33619161&goal=0_086cfd423c-fcce54a580-33619161

We can cherry-pick many different events. Is Japan part of the US because they lost the war? How about Iraq?
To say everyone should feel it belongs to Israel answers the question.

[whYME]

So you are saying the only people in the world that feel it is legitimate for the annex are Jews?

No. He was saying only the Jews don't get to set their borders after winning the war.

[shwarmabob]

We can cherry-pick many different events. Is Japan part of the US because they lost the war? How about Iraq?
To say everyone should feel it belongs to Israel answers the question.

Japan is not part of the US because the US never wanted it. The US is generally uncomfortable being an empire while it is one without admitting it.
I thought the US left Iraq and gave it to Iran as a present.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

No. He was saying only the Jews don't get to set their borders after winning the war.

OK so his answer was to the first part and not the second part.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I thought the US left Iraq and gave it to Iran as a present.

That explains your comments if you believe that.

[shwarmabob]

That explains your comments if you believe that.

Which part do you disagree with the 1st or 2nd?
The 1st is factual. The 2nd is as much of a criticism of Pres. Bush as Pres. Obama

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Which part do you disagree with the 1st or 2nd?
The 1st is factual. The 2nd is more of a criticism of Pres. Bush than Pres. Obama

Of course the second part.

[yuneeq]

https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/05/31/taking-a-photo-of-something-impairs-your-memory-of-it-but-the-reasons-remain-largely-mysterious/

[shwarmabob]

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/may/29/antony-beevor-the-greatest-war-movie-ever-and-the-ones-i-cant-bear

[hvaces42]

So you are saying the only people in the world that feel it is legitimate for the annex are Jews?

No. Wrong. Try again. When a Jew wants to annex it isnt deemed legitimate and when a non-Jew annexes after winning a war it is legitimate.

And as to what US recognition would do...please stop with this foolish notion that there is a peace procesa that will be affected. Take all the excuses off the table and then give the Palestinians one final chance to come to the table without pre-conditions.

The Palestinians are always fighting the last war. Take away the results of the last war and make them deal with the reality of what is on the ground today. Enough of trying to make a better past for themselves. It doeant work that way in real life.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

No. Worng. Try again. When a Jew wants to annex it isnt deemed legitimate and when a non-Jew annexes after winning a war it is legitimate.

Didn't someone just give an example of where the French annexation was considered illegitimate. 

[hvaces42]

Didn't someone just give an example of where the French annexation was considered illegitimate.

What French annexation?
Crimea is the only recent example. But thats apples and oranges. Ukraine didnt attack Russia.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

What French annexation?
Crimea is the only recent example. But thats apples and oranges. Ukraine didnt attack Russia.

What about Iraq/Kuwait? That was deemed illegal.

[aygart]

What about Iraq/Kuwait? That was deemed illegal.

Kuwait didn't attack Iraq either.

[hvaces42]

What about Iraq/Kuwait? That was deemed illegal.

Who was the aggressor and who annexed what? If you fight a war and win the war you get to keep the territory you won. If you invade another country you get condemned. Did Israel invade the Golan or was it fighting a defensive war and captured territory? Like I said. They are the only ones who these rules apply to. 

[ChaimMoskowitz]

If you fight a war and win the war you get to keep the territory you won.

According to who?

[hvaces42]

According to who?

The right of conquest. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_conquest

"This meant that there had to be military occupation followed by a peace settlement, and there was no reasonable chance of the defeated sovereign regaining the land. While a formal peace treaty "makes good any defects in title",[2] it was not required. Recognition by the losing party was not a requirement, "the right of acquisition vested by conquest did not depend on the consent of the dispossessed state".[3] However, the alternative was annexation (part or in whole) which if protested as unlawful, a peace treaty was the only means to legitimize conquest in a time of war. Essentially, conquest itself was a legal act of extinguishing the legal rights of other states without their consent. Under this new framework, it is notable that conquest and subsequent occupation outside of war was illegal."

Conventions of war. History. Real life.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Is Iraq the 53rd state? 
What about the Bosnian war? Did the Serbs get to keep the territory they won?