Author Topic: Interesting Articles...  (Read 1207927 times)

Offline AsherO

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5745 on: January 02, 2017, 10:05:19 AM »
I think they're intended more a deterrent for people that might commit a crime than a rehabilitation institute.

Regardless of what they're intended for, the criminal justice system isn't working IMHO.

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Online zh cohen

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5746 on: January 02, 2017, 10:27:12 AM »
I think they're intended more as a deterrent for people that might commit a crime than a rehabilitation institute.

+1

Prison does not do anything good for inmates, but there are many people who do not do a crime because they do not want to end up in prison.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5747 on: January 02, 2017, 10:28:39 AM »
Prison does not do anything good for inmates, but there are many people who do not do a crime because they do not want to end up in prison.
Does the death penalty works as a deterrent?
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5748 on: January 02, 2017, 10:31:06 AM »
I think they're intended more as a deterrent for people that might commit a crime than a rehabilitation institute.
The fear of prison will not stop any of these criminals from committing the crimes they are accused of committing. They never set out to commit a crime. No Ponzi scheme ever starts out that way.

Prison can deter you from stealing granny's pocketbook. It will not deter you from stealing out of shame of exposure from failure reproduce the outsized returns that were initially delivered.  The inability to overcome an inflated ego and admit that exact failure always leads to the ponzi scheme. The dream of recreating the returns at a later date fuel the continuance of the crime. No potential prison sentence will ever deter that.

There is no rehabilitation in prison. Prison is a punishment that society tells itself works. For murderers, rapists, abusers and the like prison is the only place for them. But for financial crimes its a waste of time. 
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Offline Dan

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5749 on: January 02, 2017, 10:34:40 AM »
The fear of prison will not stop any of these criminals from committing the crimes they are accused of committing. They never set out to commit a crime. No Ponzi scheme ever starts out that way.

Prison can deter you from stealing granny's pocketbook. It will not deter you from stealing out of shame of exposure from failure reproduce the outsized returns that were initially delivered.  The inability to overcome an inflated ego and admit that exact failure always leads to the ponzi scheme. The dream of recreating the returns at a later date fuel the continuance of the crime. No potential prison sentence will ever deter that.

There is no rehabilitation in prison. Prison is a punishment that society tells itself works. For murderers, rapists, abusers and the like prison is the only place for them. But for financial crimes its a waste of time. 
I can tell you personally that there are plenty of arbitrage and other arguably grey opportunities that come across my desk that I don't do because I have no interest in even a small chance of winding up in prison for 2 years like those Nordstrom cashback brothers...
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Online TimT

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5750 on: January 02, 2017, 10:40:49 AM »
Does the death penalty works as a deterrent?
If it was carried out swiftly it might. The fact that many death row inmates die of old age doesn't help.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5751 on: January 02, 2017, 10:46:29 AM »
I can tell you personally that there are plenty of arbitrage and other arguably grey opportunities that come across my desk that I don't do because I have no interest in even a small chance of winding up in prison for 2 years like those Nordstrom cashback brothers...
+1 Straight people with some ethical standards don't go down that path.

But guys who start of their careers by cheating on the series 7 test are bound to end up in jail at the end...

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5752 on: January 02, 2017, 10:47:26 AM »
I can tell you personally that there are plenty of arbitrage and other arguably grey opportunities that come across my desk that I don't do because I have no interest in even a small chance of winding up in prison for 2 years like those Nordstrom cashback brothers...
Because its being done to a large corporation doesn't mean you're not stealing granny's pocketbook.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5753 on: January 02, 2017, 10:50:26 AM »
Because its being done to a large corporation doesn't mean you're not stealing granny's pocketbook.
There's a world of difference between arbitrage opportunities/churning/etc and theft. We all have to draw the lines that we're comfortable with and to some extent the threat of whether this is something that would even have a 1% chance of ending up in jail does help with drawing that line.

Not really sure what we're arguing about here. Prison is a crime deterrent for much of the population and is clearly the main benefit of its existence.
Things are much worse off in countries that don't prosecute bribery, blackmail, etc.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5754 on: January 02, 2017, 10:52:03 AM »
+1 Straight people with some ethical standards don't go down that path.

But guys who start of their careers by cheating on the series 7 test are bound to end up in jail at the end...
Behind every great fortune there is a great crime.

You would be shocked if you knew every secret that the investors that lost money with him hold. Every one of them, to a fault, has had something in their past. So I wouldnt be so quick to judge.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5755 on: January 02, 2017, 10:56:49 AM »
There's a world of difference between arbitrage opportunities/churning/etc and theft. We all have to draw the lines that we're comfortable with and to some extent the threat of whether this is something that would even have a 1% chance of ending up in jail does help with drawing that line.

Not really sure what we're arguing about here. Prison is a crime deterrent for much of the population and is clearly the main benefit of its existence.
Things are much worse off in countries that don't prosecute bribery, blackmail, etc.
We are arguing whether it really is a deterrent. If it was, there wouldnt be Ponzi schemes cropping up on a daily basis.

Obviously there is a path that all of these schemes follow. Early outsized returns. Investors clamoring for outsized returns. Pressure to keep up the returns. Inability to keep pace. Inability to face the fact that they were not so smart and got lucky a few times. Coverup begins. Cash flow dries up.

At what point does the deterrent kick in? Its supposed to kick in when they lose their first dollar. But it never does.
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Offline JTZ

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5756 on: January 02, 2017, 10:57:28 AM »
When did jail as a punishment for the crime go out the window?
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Offline Dan

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5757 on: January 02, 2017, 10:58:53 AM »
We are arguing whether it really is a deterrent. If it was, there wouldnt be Ponzi schemes cropping up on a daily basis.

Obviously there is a path that all of these schemes follow. Early outsized returns. Investors clamoring for outsized returns. Pressure to keep up the returns. Inability to keep pace. Inability to face the fact that they were not so smart and got lucky a few times. Coverup begins. Cash flow dries up.

At what point does the deterrent kick in? Its supposed to kick in when they lose their first dollar. But it never does.
There will always be some people that don't think about the consequences of their actions until it's too late.
But without the threat there would be many more of these things happening.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5758 on: January 02, 2017, 11:01:48 AM »
When did jail as a punishment for the crime go out the window?
It didnt. I'm just arguing that it doesnt do any good to just jail a financial criminal ad infinitum. It does no one any good.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5759 on: January 02, 2017, 11:02:53 AM »
It didnt. I'm just arguing that it doesnt do any good to just jail a financial criminal ad infinitum. It does no one any good.
I don't think anyone's arguing that lifetime sentences for financial crimes make sense.
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