Author Topic: Interesting Articles...  (Read 2347463 times)

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1929
  • Total likes: 186
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6340 on: February 16, 2017, 02:19:24 PM »
Doesn't say too much about what their roles will be, but near the end Weiss says his 'intern' will occasionally give the drasha shabbos morning from the pulpit. Guess that still leaves them squarely outside the recent OU letter.

Note the date of the article.  His position has evolved significantly since then.   He was the primary target of the recent OU letter.  I guess it shows that they were squarely outside the future OU letter almost 20 years ago.

Online skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 3810
  • Total likes: 826
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6341 on: February 16, 2017, 02:25:42 PM »
Note the date of the article.  His position has evolved significantly since then.   He was the primary target of the recent OU letter.  I guess it shows that they were squarely outside the future OU letter almost 20 years ago.
Ah... originally assumed it was current and that he was attempting to scoot back within the OU's line. If you're posting an old article, you should probably mention that in the post.

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1929
  • Total likes: 186
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6342 on: February 16, 2017, 04:40:58 PM »
Ah... originally assumed it was current and that he was attempting to scoot back within the OU's line. If you're posting an old article, you should probably mention that in the post.
My bad, I apologize.

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1349
  • Total likes: 119
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1349
  • Total likes: 119
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6345 on: February 17, 2017, 06:34:52 AM »
That had a weak case to start with.
Didn't know of this case until the article. What was weak about it?

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6346 on: February 17, 2017, 07:41:14 AM »
Didn't know of this case until the article. What was weak about it?
They were long time customers. So they had no problem selling to gays but when they wanted to get married they said no.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1929
  • Total likes: 186
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6347 on: February 17, 2017, 07:44:43 AM »
They were long time customers. So they had no problem selling to gays but when they wanted to get married they said no.

I would think that the fact that they sold to them as individuals is a point in their favor.  Their issue is not with gays but with gay weddings.

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6348 on: February 17, 2017, 07:48:56 AM »
I would think that the fact that they sold to them as individuals is a point in their favor.  Their issue is not with gays but with gay weddings.
What about a banquet for the baseball team. They are not against gays but against gay baseball?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1349
  • Total likes: 119
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6349 on: February 17, 2017, 07:49:48 AM »
They were long time customers. So they had no problem selling to gays but when they wanted to get married they said no.
Huh? I don't see any problem with that argument. That's a classic misperception of people who are against gay marriage. As an orthodox jew I believe God doesn't want us to engage in homesexual activity but I don't judge nor treat the gay PERSON any less than a straight person. I certainly wouldn't refuse to let him buy flowers. However to participate in (and evermore so beautify)  a CELEBRATION  of something that I believe God doesn't want done is something I am not able to do.
Is that such a hard distinction to hear?
(Sorry for the caps don't know how to bold or italicize in tapa)

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1929
  • Total likes: 186
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6350 on: February 17, 2017, 07:51:42 AM »
Huh? I don't see any problem with that argument. That's a classic misperception of people who are against gay marriage. As an orthodox jew I believe God doesn't want us to engage in homesexual activity but I don't judge nor treat the gay PERSON any less than a straight person. I certainly wouldn't refuse to let him buy flowers. However to participate in (and evermore so beautify)  a CELEBRATION  of something that I believe God doesn't want done is something I am not able to do.
Is that such a hard distinction to hear?
(Sorry for the caps don't know how to bold or italicize in tapa)

+1

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1349
  • Total likes: 119
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6351 on: February 17, 2017, 07:53:46 AM »
More succinctly: letting a gay person buy flowers says nothing about my opinion of homosexuality (unlike a lot of society I don't define the whole being by his sexual behaviour) decorating a gay wedding does.

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6352 on: February 17, 2017, 09:28:51 AM »
Huh? I don't see any problem with that argument. That's a classic misperception of people who are against gay marriage. As an orthodox jew I believe God doesn't want us to engage in homesexual activity but I don't judge nor treat the gay PERSON any less than a straight person. I certainly wouldn't refuse to let him buy flowers. However to participate in (and evermore so beautify)  a CELEBRATION  of something that I believe God doesn't want done is something I am not able to do.
Is that such a hard distinction to hear?
(Sorry for the caps don't know how to bold or italicize in tapa)
Lets see if I have this correct. Homosexuality is against your religion. You will sell a gay person flowers but will not judge him. If that same gay person wants flowers for his wedding you will not sell them to him. Gay marriage is also against your religion but in this case you decide to judge him. You don't see a problem with that logic?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6353 on: February 17, 2017, 09:32:11 AM »
Lets see if I have this correct. Homosexuality is against your religion. You will sell a gay person flowers but will not judge him. If that same gay person wants flowers for his wedding you will not sell them to him. Gay marriage is also against your religion but in this case you decide to judge him. You don't see a problem with that logic?
One is the person one is his action.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6354 on: February 17, 2017, 09:36:04 AM »
One is the person one is his action.
The person is having homosexual activity and the person is getting married. Will you sell him flowers for Valentine's day?  :)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1349
  • Total likes: 119
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6355 on: February 17, 2017, 09:41:41 AM »
Lets see if I have this correct. Homosexuality is against your religion. You will sell a gay person flowers but will not judge him. If that same gay person wants flowers for his wedding you will not sell them to him. Gay marriage is also against your religion but in this case you decide to judge him. You don't see a problem with that logic?
Honestly I am completely lost with your logic and it is very disconcerting for religious freedom that people can't see such a basic distinction.
A) One is participating in a ceremony that celebrates a behavior that I believe is intrinsically wrong.
And the other is providing a service to a fellow human being that has nothing to with what happens to be his sexual preferences 
B) I cannot judge anyone nor look at him any differently because I am a completely different person with different background feelings environment abilities etc... and I have no idea if I would be any different if was in the same situation he is in (and honestly I don't know of a harder "nisayon" than a young orthodox teenager who is homosexual ) However that does not mean I agree or condone the homosexual behavior

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6356 on: February 17, 2017, 09:48:15 AM »
A) One is participating in a ceremony that celebrates a behavior that I believe is intrinsically wrong.
Is it your understanding that gay men do not participate in homosexuality that is a behavior that you believe is intrinsically wrong?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1349
  • Total likes: 119
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6357 on: February 17, 2017, 09:50:37 AM »
Is it your understanding that gay men do not participate in homosexuality that is a behavior that you believe is intrinsically wrong?
I don't understand your question.
If you are asking me if I believe that there is any gay person that doesn't engage in homesexuality then my answer is very very rare but yes

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 1884
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6358 on: February 17, 2017, 10:00:55 AM »
I don't understand your question.
Let me ask it this way. Is being gay (attracted to other men or sexual involved with other men) a behavior that is intrinsically wrong based on your religious beliefs?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline elit

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1349
  • Total likes: 119
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6359 on: February 17, 2017, 10:03:08 AM »
Let me ask it this way. Is being gay (attracted to other men or sexual involved with other men) a behavior that is intrinsically wrong based on your religious beliefs?
Attracted no. Having sex with the same gender yes. Not sure what you mean by intrinsically wrong