Author Topic: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder  (Read 10951 times)

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2025, 05:18:41 PM »
This is bonkers to still believe after Israel wiped out the Hezbollah front in a matter of days, and Gallant is plausibly stating they could done even more, even faster.

You seem to be giving Gallant's propaganda 100% credibility, and other possibilities 0%.
You fail to realize that Gallant at this point is playing politics. I know better, if only you would have listened to MY (alleged) position then results would have been different...

Lets all realize that truely judging who did a good job and who sucks can only be be done by historians a few decades into the future when many records are declassified, and not hamstrung armchair political analysis today.

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2025, 06:22:06 PM »
You seem to be giving Gallant's propaganda 100% credibility, and other possibilities 0%.
You fail to realize that Gallant at this point is playing politics. I know better, if only you would have listened to MY (alleged) position then results would have been different...

Lets all realize that truely judging who did a good job and who sucks can only be be done by historians a few decades into the future when many records are declassified, and not hamstrung armchair political analysis today.
His claims now fully align with contemporaneous reports

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2025, 07:00:27 PM »
His claims now fully align with contemporaneous reports
Wordsmith flexing on us

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2025, 10:18:57 PM »
Dan Senor's podcast, part 1 with Yoav Gallant:
https://youtu.be/aPEPztvsJGQ (or wherever you get your podcasts)


@ExGingi We've discussed this before upthread, but this is a very compelling argument from Yoav Gallant about attacking Hezbollah right away after Oct 7. (timestamped in the Youtube description at 36:50)

Admittedly, I don't consume Israeli news at all, even in English, beyond this podcast, this forum, and whatever is shared by a few close friends/relatives. I'm sure there is a counter argument from the Bibi side, but using hindsight it appears the Gallant plan would have been hugely successful. The effects are so incredibly far reaching beyond just the military success - shorter war = shortened reservist call up times = uplifted moral = economy gets rebuilt faster and on and on. We had almost a hundred thousand Israelis from the north living in hotels in Eilat for more than a year - kids not in school, parents losing jobs, etc etc. (I'm only mentioning things Gallant didn't mention himself)

This seems to be an absolutely massive missed opportunity by Bibi, compounding his Oct 7 failure, the worst by a prime minister since Golda Meir in '73, or maybe ever.

Putting aside my mistrust of Gallant (various reasons). I would like to ask you some questions:

1. Do you think that either you, I, or anyone on DDF is privy to relevant information, or might it be that there are things we don't know, that influence decision making?

2. Do you think you or I were horrified and hurt to a greater extent than Netanyahu when we found out about what happened on Shmini Atzeres 5784?

3. If something sounds so obviously logical, as Gallant presents it, do you really think others wouldn't understand it and see eye-to-eye, or might there be more to the story?

And now going back to the person in question:

Have you ever heard of ליל גלנט?

Do you really think that someone who cares about the wellbeing of Jews and the residents of Israel is right to go public with such criticism at this point? Or does it smell more of self-engrandizement?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2025, 11:03:52 PM »


Putting aside my mistrust of Gallant (various reasons). I would like to ask you some questions:

1. Do you think that either you, I, or anyone on DDF is privy to relevant information, or might it be that there are things we don't know, that influence decision making?

2. Do you think you or I were horrified and hurt to a greater extent than Netanyahu when we found out about what happened on Shmini Atzeres 5784?

3. If something sounds so obviously logical, as Gallant presents it, do you really think others wouldn't understand it and see eye-to-eye, or might there be more to the story?

And now going back to the person in question:

Have you ever heard of ליל גלנט?

Do you really think that someone who cares about the wellbeing of Jews and the residents of Israel is right to go public with such criticism at this point? Or does it smell more of self-engrandizement?

1) we've had this discussion before. The only time you invoke lack of info is when the known facts don't align with your preferred politician.

2) no idea. Not relevant

3) the other side has put forward claims and I don't think they hold water. For instance, the claim above that Israel would not be ready to fight Hezbollah which we now know was false. I think the most obvious reason not to do it is not to push your luck with America. I disagree with that MO, as would you if anyone aside from Gallant was involved.

4) no

5) To be more self-engradizing than Bibi would be such an accomplishment I would support him just for having such capability. Again, this is an attack on the person, not the idea.

The Gallant strategy of hitting Hezbollah first was well known from the early days of the war, and it was not just him that wanted to go that route. You can think Bibi is a better leader than Gallant and still think Bibi got this wrong.

For all we know, the self same dismissal everyone here is having because the strategy is coming out of Gallant's mouth without considering the actual strategy might be the same reason Bibi didn't go with it, and had someone else made the same suggestion he would have done it.


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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2025, 03:57:28 AM »

1) we've had this discussion before. The only time you invoke lack of info is when the known facts don't align with your preferred politician.

For the record: I despise all politicians.


2) no idea. Not relevant

I beg to disagree. I think it was a major wake up call for him. He is an ardent Zionist that believes in כחי ועצם ידי as the only recipe to save the continued survival of the Jewish people. This was an insult to his core beliefs. It was a major wake up call for him, and a paradigm shift moment.

3) the other side has put forward claims and I don't think they hold water. For instance, the claim above that Israel would not be ready to fight Hezbollah which we now know was false. I think the most obvious reason not to do it is not to push your luck with America. I disagree with that MO, as would you if anyone aside from Gallant was involved.

The famous adage goes: Those who know keep silent, while those who talk don't really know. I have plenty of criticism of Bibi (not the least of which is his lack of ba**a to stand up against the left, Javier Millei style). I reserve judgment until more facts become public. This will take years.

4) no

From Wikipedia:

Quote
ב-25 במרץ 2023 קרא שר הביטחון יואב גלנט לעצירה מיידית של חקיקת הרפורמה המשפטית מתוך חשש לסכנה לביטחון המדינה. במהלך נאומו אמר:

האירועים המתרחשים בחברה הישראלית אינם פוסחים על צה"ל. מכל עבר עולות תחושות של כעס, כאב ואכזבה בעוצמה בה לא נתקלתי מעולם. אני רואה כיצד מקור עוצמתנו הולך ונשחק. כשר הביטחון של מדינת ישראל אני אומר בצורה הברורה ביותר, השסע ההולך ונפער בחברה חודר לצה"ל וגופי הביטחון. זו סכנה ברורה, מיידית ומוחשית לביטחון המדינה. לדבר הזה לא אתן את ידי. אני איש ימין, חבר בתנועת הליכוד, מאמין בעקרונותיה ומחויב לערכיה, המציבים את מדינת ישראל מעל הכול. צריך שינוי במערכת המשפט. מארג היחסים שבין הרשות השופטת לבין הממשלה והכנסת דורש איזון, זה יחזק את הדמוקרטיה ויגביר את אמון הציבור. ועם זאת, שינויים משמעותיים, לאומיים, עושים בהידברות ובשיח...

בימים ובשבועות האחרונים, בשיחות ודיונים מאחורי הקלעים, הצגתי את תמונת המצב הביטחונית. ביקשתי, נימקתי והבהרתי. בעת הזו חייבים לעצור את התהליך כדי שנוכל לשבת ולדבר. אבל עכשיו, אני אומר זאת בקולי, באופן פומבי. למען ביטחון ישראל, למען בנותינו ובנינו. צריך לעצור בעת הזאת את תהליך החקיקה...

...
למחרת בערב זימן ראש הממשלה נתניהו את גלנט ללשכתו ואמר לו שהוא איבד את האמון בו לאחר שזה פעל נגד הממשלה ונגד הקואליציה בעת שראש הממשלה שהה בביקור מדיני בחו"ל, וכי בכוונתו לפטר אותו מתפקיד שר הביטחון.

...

The evening that followed saw some of the most violent protests against the government, followed by various strikes announced by several municipalities, as well as some corporations.

Bibi ended up caving in, reversing the dismissal and suspending the Judicial Reform.

The MO of Gallant to go publicly against Netanyahu while the latter was on an official visit to the US, was reminiscent of the announcement of the former AG announcing that he decided to file an indictment against Netanyahu while he was in the US to sign the Abraham Accords.


5) To be more self-engradizing than Bibi would be such an accomplishment I would support him just for having such capability. Again, this is an attack on the person, not the idea.

I wouldn't support him for that, but I agree it is a major accomplishment. I thought Bibi's smirk while Trump was talking was embarrassing. I can see where he was coming from, and the relief he felt after having to stand up against so much for so long, but I thought his level of excitement wasn't befitting to his image as a strong leader.

As for this being an attack on the person, it is indeed so, as I stated before the last two questions, which were deliberately not numbered as a continuation of the sequence.


The Gallant strategy of hitting Hezbollah first was well known from the early days of the war, and it was not just him that wanted to go that route. You can think Bibi is a better leader than Gallant and still think Bibi got this wrong.

For all we know, the self same dismissal everyone here is having because the strategy is coming out of Gallant's mouth without considering the actual strategy might be the same reason Bibi didn't go with it,

Without having additional information, I would tend to agree with you (and with that which is presented as Gallant strategy).

However, I have very strong reasons to distrust Gallant (independent of seeing this as a binary Gallant vs Bibi choice).

and had someone else made the same suggestion he would have done it.

This attributes ulterior motives to Netanyahu in a very serious way. This is why I asked question #2 which I believe is highly relevant.

I haven't used the B word in a while 'round here. If one opens up their eyes to the things being uncovered in the US, and in Israel, it is hard to ignore the level of corruption, big money, and Bolshevik/Globalist agenda influencing so much geopolitics around the world. The fingerprints are everywhere, and Gallant has too many fingerprints on him indicating that he was a Trojan Horse.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2025, 04:19:34 AM »
Dan Senor's podcast, part 1 with Yoav Gallant:
https://youtu.be/aPEPztvsJGQ (or wherever you get your podcasts)


@ExGingi We've discussed this before upthread, but this is a very compelling argument from Yoav Gallant about attacking Hezbollah right away after Oct 7. (timestamped in the Youtube description at 36:50)

Admittedly, I don't consume Israeli news at all, even in English, beyond this podcast, this forum, and whatever is shared by a few close friends/relatives. I'm sure there is a counter argument from the Bibi side, but using hindsight it appears the Gallant plan would have been hugely successful. The effects are so incredibly far reaching beyond just the military success - shorter war = shortened reservist call up times = uplifted moral = economy gets rebuilt faster and on and on. We had almost a hundred thousand Israelis from the north living in hotels in Eilat for more than a year - kids not in school, parents losing jobs, etc etc. (I'm only mentioning things Gallant didn't mention himself)

This seems to be an absolutely massive missed opportunity by Bibi, compounding his Oct 7 failure, the worst by a prime minister since Golda Meir in '73, or maybe ever.
Waited to respond till I could sit down and type this normally.

I'm not on the anti-bibi-he-is-destroying-democracy-train, nor on the Bibi is moshiach train. And I 100% agree that people's reactions to Gallant's statements seem to be split right down the middle, based on which train you are on.

I haven't listened to this podcast, but he spoke about the same topics in an interview with Channel 12 last week.

With those disclaimers out of the way:

- His arguments are quite convincing. When the first report (WSJ?) went out early on that Gallant and Halevi were pro an attack on Hezbollah almost immediately, with Bibi against (facts) and that Bibi and Deri stalled till they could get Eisenkot and Gantz on board to help vote against it (speculation, but very likely), it basically boiled down to, do you trust the defense minister and chief of staff when they say we must attack right now, or the PM who says we don't? Seems pretty clear to me the military guys are to be trusted over the politicians.

- With that said, I disagree with your assertion that their stunning total demolishment of Hezbollah a year+ later proves they could have pulled off the same way that week. It seems the IDF was in total disarray, the reservists were showing up with plenty of passion and morale, but less organization. It makes sense to say they wouldn't have been able to pull it off then the same way as later (notwithstanding the already existing walkie talkie operation, in which Gallant's version sounds eminently more credible than Bibi's). You could easily ascribe their successes later on, as well as the lighting neutralization of Syria's entire arsenal, to plans drafted and prefected over that year and half, once the security chiefs were jolted out of their complacent stupor.

- Even if you disagree, at the very least it makes sense that Bibi thought so. Having just been failed by the entire security apparatus, and having just been informed that there were zero plans in place to decimate Hamas or take out its leaders (seems in the very first call of that morning he asked that they activate every assassination plan for "Sinwar and down", which we clearly see they just didn't have), it makes sense he was like, guys, why you so sure that we can swiftly destroy Hezbollah? This is borne out by Gallant saying Bibi was extremely pessimistic about casualties on both fronts.

- Finally, I believe that if Israel went full force on Hezbollah that week, they would not have wanted to continue on Hamas later. The demand from Israeli society to "do something," as echoed by gallant in his interview (translated: "...what do we have an army for? If after they kill a thousand of our citizens and kidnap them and kill women and children and elderly people, we won’t carry it out?") would have been satisfied by the northern front, and Hamas would not have been crushed nearly as strongly.

So in short, there's ample room to believe that Bibi's cheshbonos were rooted in very real fears.

But I think I have to begrudgingly agree that on that one argument Gallant is correct, and his cheshbonos are proper, not influenced by anti bibi/anti charedi/pro leftist sentiments. Bibi was for sure aware of all the plans ready to go for Hezbollah, and it was American pressure or some bad reason that caused him to block it.

On a separate note, he is wrong 1) in his criticisms of Smotrich for sticking to his guns and threatening to leave over a "hostages for netzarim" deal, 2) in his taineh that Bibi was more responsible for sinking the previous deal attempt than Hamas (implying that Bibi is responsible for the hostages, not Hamas, ayin shom) 3) his assertion that Bibi has no day after plan and therefore the war was doomed from the start. You first take full military control, then you plan the day after. And he is not ready to say let's take it over fully

Tl;Dr: After some thought, I have to agree that Gallant seems pretty convincing in this argument, Bibi was just being his usual overly cautious self. Notwithstanding that Gallant has fallen prey to a lot of the wrongful ideas of the Israeli "center."
« Last Edit: February 14, 2025, 04:29:56 AM by Chuchum Ainer »

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2025, 04:20:14 AM »
Putting aside my mistrust of Gallant (various reasons). I would like to ask you some questions:

2. Do you think you or I were horrified and hurt to a greater extent than Netanyahu when we found out about what happened on Shmini Atzeres 5784?


I think Gantz was hurt even more. So?

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2025, 04:23:02 AM »


I beg to disagree. I think it was a major wake up call for him. He is an ardent Zionist that believes in כחי ועצם ידי as the only recipe to save the continued survival of the Jewish people. This was an insult to his core beliefs. It was a major wake up call for him, and a paradigm shift moment.


Any proofs for this theory?


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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2025, 04:26:25 AM »
I think Gantz was hurt even more. So?

Seriously? Gantz? That spineless handsome scarecrow?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2025, 04:26:52 AM »
Quote from: Yehuda57
The Gallant strategy of hitting Hezbollah first was well known from the early days of the war, and it was not just him that wanted to go that route. You can think Bibi is a better leader than Gallant and still think Bibi got this wrong.

For all we know, the self same dismissal everyone here is having because the strategy is coming out of Gallant's mouth without considering the actual strategy might be the same reason Bibi didn't go with it,
Without having additional information, I would tend to agree with you (and with that which is presented as Gallant strategy).

However, I have very strong reasons to distrust Gallant (independent of seeing this as a binary Gallant vs Bibi choice).

OH! So we're all on agreement here.

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2025, 04:27:29 AM »
Seriously? Gantz? That spineless handsome scarecrow?

What does his spine have to do with if he was horrified by the Oct 7 attack?

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2025, 04:34:41 AM »

- His arguments are quite convincing. When the first report (WSJ?) went out early on that Gallant and Halevi were pro an attack on Hezbollah almost immediately, with Bibi against (facts) and that Bibi and Deri stalled till they could get Eisenkot and Gantz on board to help vote against it (speculation, but very likely), it basically boiled down to, do you trust the defense minister and chief of staff when they say we must attack right now, or the PM who says we don't? Seems pretty clear to me the military guys are to be trusted over the politicians.

....

Tl;Dr: After some thought, I have to agree that Gallant seems pretty convincing in this argument, Bibi was just being his usual overly cautious self. Notwithstanding that Gallant has fallen prey to a lot of the wrongful ideas of the Israeli "center."

Are you totally blind or just completely ignorant?

What did the "military guys" do prior to 6am on October 7th (after previously being exposed to the plan code named Jericho Wall?)

What security assessments did the "military guys" pass on to "the politicians" regarding Hamas?

Are you totally unaware of facts that are coming to light bit by bit? (and I'm not even talking about Gallant seemingly being a pawn of the Soros led machine).

https://x.com/mk1956/status/1890273416999313550
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2025, 04:35:49 AM »
What does his spine have to do with if he was horrified by the Oct 7 attack?

So you think scarecrows aren't only horrifying, they are also horrified?  ::)

Hint: scarecrows are just another type of puppet.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2025, 04:44:49 AM »
So you think scarecrows aren't only horrifying, they are also horrified?  ::)

Hint: scarecrows are just another type of puppet.
You ignored the question. Why do you think that Bibi was more horrified than Gantz on Oct 7? And why does it matter?

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2025, 04:49:03 AM »
Are you totally blind or just completely ignorant?
Neither, thanks for asking
What did the "military guys" do prior to 6am on October 7th (after previously being exposed to the plan code named Jericho Wall?)
What did Bibi do prior to 6am on October 7th? (And agav, cmiiw, but Gallant was right there with Bibi in not being called by herzi halevi at 4am)

Are you totally unaware of facts that are coming to light bit by bit?
Vague enough (I assume by design) that I cannot answer.
(and I'm not even talking about Gallant seemingly being a pawn of the Soros led machine).
Wait till someone lets you in on the secret that Bibi is a pawn in Trump's plan for middle east domination, and his very own Trump tower - Riyadh

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2025, 04:51:45 AM »
Quote
Gallant is misleading and irresponsible.
His "plan" would be a disaster has it happenned. It ignores the risk of raids and kidnapping of the unprotected population next to the border, the disarray of the IDF at the time, and the missile threat on Israel gas facilities.
I guess it's true, cuz Moshik said it is.

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2025, 05:23:37 AM »
You ignored the question. Why do you think that Bibi was more horrified than Gantz on Oct 7? And why does it matter?

You ignored the answers. Which might provide insight into your response

Are you totally blind or just completely ignorant?
Neither, thanks for asking

but I won't go there now.

I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2025, 05:24:54 AM »
You ignored the answers. Which might provide insight into your response

I must have missed them. Spell it out for me.

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Re: Yoav Gallant On Dan Senor's podcast: Bibi's October 11th Blunder
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2025, 07:55:40 AM »
Regarding the IDF being in disarray, it's not a secret that Hezbollah is the war Israel has been preparing for since 2002. That is where they had infiltrated the highest echelons of leadership, and we know now they had intel not even novels speak about.

Even with ground battalions getting mobilized, within a couple of days they would have wiped out the leadership, and even more missile stockpiles they did when they eventually did attack. Then when the Hezbollah soldiers donned their vests for the ground fight and to do those kidnappings - their radios explode with more deadly explosive than the beepers.

The Hamas war was always going to happen, and I think Gallant's assertion seems more likely, with greater success coming off the heel of such a showing in Hezbollah and with an undivided army.