Author Topic: Next Vatican - Ideas  (Read 13746 times)

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #160 on: April 24, 2025, 01:29:06 PM »
Let me make sure I understand this. Who did G-d tell this to? Was it more than one person?
Again. I believe God said this. I also believe it happened. And I contrast that to RCC atrocities which don’t have that defense.
You don’t believe God said it. So I question why you are certain it happened.
You can’t have it both ways.

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #161 on: April 24, 2025, 01:31:53 PM »
Pathetic moral equivalency on his part.
He considers those on both side all to be children of G-d.
Killing innocent people on either side is wrong.
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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #162 on: April 24, 2025, 01:34:26 PM »
Again. I believe God said this. I also believe it happened. And I contrast that to RCC atrocities which don’t have that defense.
You don’t believe God said it. So I question why you are certain it happened.
You can’t have it both ways.
I am not certain anything happened, and I don't believe it did happen. I am addressing those who believe it did happen and are throwing rocks.

My question was who did G-d say this to and was it more than one person.
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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #163 on: April 24, 2025, 01:36:56 PM »
He considers those on both side all to be children of G-d.
Killing innocent people on either side is wrong.
No, it isn't, FYI.

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #164 on: April 24, 2025, 01:38:01 PM »
No, it isn't, FYI.
That is another subject we just disagree with.
I have the Pope on my side.  :)
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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #165 on: April 24, 2025, 01:50:18 PM »
No, it isn't, FYI.
My understanding is that Catholic theology has a different view on self defense and collateral damage than Judaism
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline imayid2

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #166 on: April 24, 2025, 01:50:45 PM »
He considers those on both side all to be children of G-d.
Killing innocent people on either side is wrong.
That is no excuse for equivalency. There is a clear difference why/how those innocents are killed, and his failure to acknowledge that right after 10.7 is alarming. You’d think someone representing an institution with that history which tried to make amends would be more careful, but no.

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #167 on: April 24, 2025, 01:51:26 PM »
I am not certain anything happened, and I don't believe it did happen. I am addressing those who believe it did happen and are throwing rocks.

My question was who did G-d say this to and was it more than one person.
And like I said, I believe God said and I believe it happened. And I’m not going to apply evidentiary standards to one and not the other.


Offline imayid2

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #168 on: April 24, 2025, 01:52:17 PM »
My question was who did G-d say this to and was it more than one person.
Should not matter to a Catholic who believes that everything written in Scriptures is divinely inspired.

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #169 on: April 24, 2025, 02:04:45 PM »
Why is everyone so defensive about the story?
My understanding is Saul told this story. Is that correct?
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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #170 on: April 24, 2025, 02:05:57 PM »
That is no excuse for equivalency. There is a clear difference why/how those innocents are killed, and his failure to acknowledge that right after 10.7 is alarming. You’d think someone representing an institution with that history which tried to make amends would be more careful, but no.
Your bias view is duly noted.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #171 on: April 24, 2025, 02:11:41 PM »
Why is everyone so defensive about the story?
My understanding is Saul told this story. Is that correct?
No, its the author of the book of Samuel describing the events.

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #172 on: April 24, 2025, 02:21:38 PM »
No, its the author of the book of Samuel describing the events.
Sorry I meant G-d told Saul according to the author, correct?
So, Saul disobeyed G-d by letting the king and some animals live?

Who did the author hear it from?

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #173 on: April 24, 2025, 02:22:23 PM »
That is another subject we just disagree with.
I have the Pope on my side.  :)
Common sense issue.
My understanding is that Catholic theology has a different view on self defense and collateral damage than Judaism
That makes no sense. No further comment as per your directive.

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #174 on: April 24, 2025, 02:27:06 PM »
Sorry I meant G-d told Saul according to the author, correct?
So, Saul disobeyed G-d by letting the king and some animals live?

Who did the author hear it from?
CCC 105:
“God is the author of Sacred Scripture… He inspired the human authors of the sacred books… the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error”

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #175 on: April 24, 2025, 02:27:49 PM »
i read this as next VACATION-ideas and was WHY was this thread moved?  :D :D

Same and came here just to see if anyone else did I was right
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Offline AYHG

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #176 on: April 24, 2025, 02:41:08 PM »
Sheesh, people.

As @yawn keeps pointing out, the logic of our theological belief system is only meant to operate within the framework of Judaic beliefs.

The destruction of Amalek is a commandment from the creator of the universe and the creator of Amalek, recorded in a divine book (which, incidentally, all three major monotheistic world religions concur is divine). There, I said it.
All other arguments (baby hitler, etc.) are commentary. Possible ta’amei hamitzvos.
Other actors also believe they’re acting in the name of G-d? Well, they’re wrong. Perhaps they can do a better job at sourcing their theology.

Yes, I understand that this is hard to swallow and unconvincing to a non-believer in the divinity of the commandment, and/or someone who doesn't recognize the drivel of other religions for what it is, but we shouldn’t be apologizing and running to find alternative motivations and justifications for G-d’s mitzvos.

Anyone else see the irony of 8 pages of Jews pleading their theological case before the Christian moral police about what we are or are not allowed to feel and believe about the Pope?
Doesn’t at all remind me of our long bitter history in Europe…

Still… If a non-Jew were to repost a joke invented by a religious jew about the passing of a world-renown rabbinic leader with important universal political clout (incidentally, such a person doesn’t exist), although we’d find it distasteful, I don’t think anyone here would get overly dramatic about it and label him a hater, (unless he demonstrates that he reserves this kind of mockery to Jewish leaders alone, historically a common marker of antisemitism).

Regarding Francis himself, I don’t think this is really about him as an individual at all (although I’m deeply suspicious of the motivations of a pope announcing to the world that we need to investigate those Jews again for possible genocide).
Aside from the history angle, we have a mitzvah to ridicule idolatrous beliefs, and as the face of his institution, he becomes the face of these beliefs. There is a difference between mockery and hate, and then there’s also the matter of how it’s acted upon.

The expectation that everyone must universally respect the sensitivities of every religion or creed as equal is a leftist fantasy (which they themselves can’t even manage to abide by), an outgrowth of the failed idea that there isn’t any absolute moral truth, so it doesn’t really matter either way.
Reasonable humans recognize that everyone is partial to their religious beliefs and/or worldview. A multicultural and multireligious society can still get along by recognizing this in good humor, and in treating neighbors respectfully, even if you don’t respect (and even mock) their beliefs.

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #177 on: April 24, 2025, 03:31:19 PM »
Anyone else see the irony of 8 pages of Jews pleading their theological case before the Christian moral police about what we are or are not allowed to feel and believe about the Pope?
You are allowed to feel and believe whatever you want.
The question is should you post jokes/parody/hate about someone who is revered by millions at this time?
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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #178 on: April 24, 2025, 04:32:43 PM »
You are allowed to feel and believe whatever you want.
The question is should you post jokes/parody/hate about someone who is revered by millions at this time?

The timing is wrong, plus given the fact that it is insulting to a member we all enjoy to interact and tease with. :)

With that said, all you can complain about is the poorer ethics of some derogatory posts. There wasn't any hate directed towards the individual who passed away, just disrespect towards the title he held and the institution he headed. Yes, we also harbor immense animosity and bitter feelings about the continuous practice of shedding our blood orchestrated and conducted by that institution for millennia. We're glad they no longer follow that path and that's all we want. We don't need their apologies as long as they no longer persecute us, but expecting our respect is actually disrespectful to us. You don't ask a victim to forget about the suffering it endured and pay homage to the institution which perpetrated it.     

There is another point to make, we take our religion seriously. We take the Holy Scriptures seriously. We don't choose and pick and and erase portions we don't think to be compatible with our perceived "common sense". Also, strict monotheism is a core tenet in our religion and we take that seriously too, therefore we view trinity beliefs and terms like son etc. as an utter desecration of God's name and oneness. While we are tolerant of people practicing and believing other religions and we wouldn't even engage in proselytizing, we can in no way be asked to respect an institution which is the embodiment of something considered to be a desecration of G-d's oneness, according to our religion. The world at large shifted from devouring alive others with different religions to preaching and demanding love and respect for all religions. Both are wrong, considering when you take your religion seriously, although thankfully the latter is harmless. We should preach about tolerance and coexistence. Our beef with the history of the church isn't because they didn't respect our religion and viewed it as a desecration to theirs, but because they acted on it, and their zero tolerance and hate led to their cruel and bloody behavior. 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2025, 04:38:17 PM by EliJelly »

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Re: Next Vatican - Ideas
« Reply #179 on: April 24, 2025, 04:59:56 PM »
I have no issue if you don't respect the Pope. Even if the RCC never did anything wrong to a single Jew you still wouldn't respect the religion. You claim Catholics are all idol worshipers so spare me the BS.

This all started in the RIP thread, and I didn't say a word hoping it would just die. But instead, a separate thread was created to mock, joke, hate or whatever you want to call it about a man that was and still is revered by tens of millions. That says a lot about MANY members here.
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