Author Topic: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis  (Read 66475 times)

Offline YitzyS

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 5682
  • Total likes: 13831
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #100 on: November 30, 2021, 08:41:49 PM »
I didn’t see an explanation. There are also plenty of boys? Sure, that isn’t an answer though. Twenty boys and a thousand girls is plenty of each. But still a crisis.
He obviously thought it was more even or he wouldn't have said that. You may disagree with him, but he was a really smart man who had his finger on the pulse of what was going on.

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7547
  • Total likes: 3972
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #101 on: November 30, 2021, 08:47:09 PM »
He was a really smart man who had his finger on the pulse of what was going on.
+1000



…And yet, it’s entirely possible he was actually speaking to the point he felt strongly about (it’s well known that he wasn’t a fan of bochurim starting shidduchim young) and not the question of whether the crisis did or didn’t exist, which perhaps he discounted to some extent.

There is no doubt that there are great boys who have a hard time in shidduchim as well, and there is no shortage of older boys. But I think it’s clear that there is a visible imbalance. Whether/which interventions are necessary or practical I do not profess to know. But it’s there.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18394
  • Total likes: 14573
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #102 on: November 30, 2021, 09:01:17 PM »
Did you listen to Lewenstein at the Agudah convention? He see plenty of girls who are 21 normal, from good homes who are looking for a regular run of the mill boy who haven’t gotten a single “yes” in their lives, let alone gone on a date. He almost never has a regular boy who can’t get an immediate date. But it doesn’t need a speech at the Agudah convention and the shocking statistics of unmarried girls by age group that was presented. I know of multiple girls in their low 20’s who haven’t gotten a date. Anyone who thinks there isn’t a crisis is either blind or doesn’t care or isn’t interested in what is going on by his neighbors.

I’m sorry to be so blunt and harsh but there is a huge segment in klal yisrael that is in pain and is going through gehenom with no end in sight and it is so painful to still see people in denial.
That still does not mean it is not from personal choices. It is totally possible that the people being hurt are not the same as the ones making these choices.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18394
  • Total likes: 14573
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #103 on: November 30, 2021, 09:06:43 PM »


Tzodek Katz
Has written in the Yated that the very concept of a shidduch crisis can be borderline kfira and I have heard this from a number of close talmidim of a certain older Rosh Yeshiva.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline cmey

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 459
  • Total likes: 281
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: lakewood
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #104 on: November 30, 2021, 09:31:33 PM »
Has written in the Yated that the very concept of a shidduch crisis can be borderline kfira and I have heard this from a number of close talmidim of a certain older Rosh Yeshiva.
In stark contrast to Rav Elya Ber who said at the convention that the above is a distortion of the concept of bitachon and one must do hishtadlus to address the age gap.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18394
  • Total likes: 14573
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #105 on: November 30, 2021, 09:32:08 PM »
In stark contrast to Rav Elya Ber who said at the convention that the above is a distortion of the concept of bitachon and one must do hishtadlus to address the age gap.
The two are not contradictory
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline cmey

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 459
  • Total likes: 281
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: lakewood
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #106 on: November 30, 2021, 09:32:53 PM »
That still does not mean it is not from personal choices. It is totally possible that the people being hurt are not the same as the ones making these choices.
Can you elaborate? How do so many normal girls go from age 19-21 without a single yes?

Offline cmey

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 459
  • Total likes: 281
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: lakewood
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #107 on: November 30, 2021, 09:38:15 PM »
I have no intention to get mixed in. I'm just saying that I've heard from gedolim who were not convinced about the shidduch crisis. I've heard it also from someone else, but I can't remember offhand who it was.
Barnett said by the convention he approached one  of the BMG roshei yeshiva with the suggestion that BMG not accept bochurim over the age of 22 to help close the gap and resolve the crisis and he was told “if its really so bad out there why haven’t I heard from all the baalei battim and others about it?” so I guess that Rosh Yeshiva is not convinced.

Offline pbf

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2018
  • Posts: 77
  • Total likes: 164
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #108 on: November 30, 2021, 09:43:17 PM »
I don't think there is a shidduch crisis (and I am what society would coin an 'older single').

Yes, girls get married older, but that's not a bad thing. So you have a lot single girls at age 23, 24 etc than you did 20 years ago.

But for the most part they get married at a relatively young age.

If you look at a grade of 30 year olds, I doubt there would be more unmarried than there was 20 years ago with a grade of 30 year olds then.

Just my 2 cents.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18394
  • Total likes: 14573
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #109 on: November 30, 2021, 09:45:47 PM »
Can you elaborate? How do so many normal girls go from age 19-21 without a single yes?

Unreasonable expectations, confused priorities....
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7547
  • Total likes: 3972
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #110 on: November 30, 2021, 09:52:46 PM »
Unreasonable expectations, confused priorities....
I know girls in the parsha for two years who never got a phone call with a yes. Please explain what they did wrong.

I don’t know any boys who have never gotten a phone call. Not one.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18394
  • Total likes: 14573
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #111 on: November 30, 2021, 10:04:10 PM »
I know girls in the parsha for two years who never got a phone call with a yes. Please explain what they did wrong.
That still does not mean it is not from personal choices. It is totally possible that the people being hurt are not the same as the ones making these choices.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 5035
  • Total likes: 6186
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #112 on: November 30, 2021, 10:04:37 PM »
That still does not mean it is not from personal choices. It is totally possible that the people being hurt are not the same as the ones making these choices.
So you agree there's a need for communal change?

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18394
  • Total likes: 14573
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #113 on: November 30, 2021, 10:05:55 PM »
So you agree there's a need for communal change?
It is very possible. Talking about an age gap is an "easy fix". Changing attitudes is much harder.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8879
  • Total likes: 4046
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #114 on: November 30, 2021, 10:36:26 PM »
As a self-professed ignoramus on the topic, I think there are several biases that would naturally make people feel that there is a terrible crises and constantly getting worse, even if reality doesn't necessarily match that view.

1. Focusing on absolute numbers, not percentages. If 5% of 18 year olds in 1990 had a difficult time getting married for various reasons, that may add up to 50 people. If the community grew 3-4x since then, and unmarried rate remains at 5%, you'd expect to see 150-200 girls added to the list each year. That's a large number that keeps growing, harder to look away. Just like you feel the world is full of tzaddikim when you attend the Siyum Hashas, and the world is full of low lives when you're at a football game. Nothing changed except your familiarity and perception.

2. Some of those 5% don't get married long term, and every year the list of unmarried singles grows on top of the previous year.

3. Network effect: With social media and technology, the world is smaller than ever. Shadchanim have access to infinitely larger networks than 20-30 years ago. Deluged by older singles that were previously out of their network, it's inevitable that they will perceive an exaggerated version of reality.

Does this mean that the crisis doesn't exist? No, and I'm a dumb know-nothing. But I think anecdotal evidence from shadchanim does not necessarily paint an accurate portrait. There is a need for real data and less anecdotes.

Hard to properly solve a problem when you can't prove it even exists.
Visibly Jewish

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 5035
  • Total likes: 6186
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #115 on: November 30, 2021, 10:52:01 PM »
There is a need for real data and less anecdotes.
This is the real crisis; so many (possible) crises being ignored or being blow out of proportion in the frum community since we have very little organized data.

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7547
  • Total likes: 3972
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #116 on: November 30, 2021, 10:58:16 PM »
Honestly, a tremendous part of the issue is the massive percentage of girls who literally cannot get a date. What’s up with that?
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline yitzgar

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 3150
  • Total likes: 1305
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #117 on: November 30, 2021, 11:05:33 PM »
I don't think there is a shidduch crisis (and I am what society would coin an 'older single').

Yes, girls get married older, but that's not a bad thing. So you have a lot single girls at age 23, 24 etc than you did 20 years ago.

But for the most part they get married at a relatively young age.

If you look at a grade of 30 year olds, I doubt there would be more unmarried than there was 20 years ago with a grade of 30 year olds then.

Just my 2 cents.
There are plenty of girls (and boys) that are still single in their 30's and not getting dates...

Offline yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 10947
  • Total likes: 3972
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 43
    • View Profile
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #118 on: November 30, 2021, 11:08:31 PM »
I'm not sure how people don't see this, but there is definitely an issue in the Yeshivish world with a percentage of boys (and/or their mothers) having crazy expectations and demands that quite frankly have zero to do with Yiddishkeit and cause a tremendous amount of pain.

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8879
  • Total likes: 4046
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #119 on: November 30, 2021, 11:20:32 PM »
Honestly, a tremendous part of the issue is the massive percentage of girls who literally cannot get a date. What’s up with that?

If you know of some, maybe we can make something happen. I asked around for my friend to about 10 people, and every time I hear crickets. Perhaps my age-group is bad for networking.
Visibly Jewish