Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis

[PlatinumGuy]

More kedusha I wouldn't link it to eretz yisroel itself

Everything else is subjective and impossible to measure, Kedusha is the one thing which is not debatable...

[yfr bachur]

Everything else is subjective and impossible to measure, Kedusha is the one thing which is not debatable...

What is debatable is if the price paid by their parents/society is worth the chance that any given bachur picks up on some of this stuff.
If they're in a place that's a chutznik cocoon...

[Definitions2]

Everything else is subjective and impossible to measure, Kedusha is the one thing which is not debatable...

If that's what david61 was referring to then yes you're right. I didn't get the feeling he was talking about that. To me it sounded like he was referring to kedushadig people and attributing it to eretz yisroel itself.

[PlatinumGuy]

If that's what david61 was referring to then yes you're right. I didn't get the feeling he was talking about that. To me it sounded like he was referring to kedushadig people and attributing it to eretz yisroel itself.

Fair enough.

What is debatable is if the price paid by their parents/society is worth the chance that any given bachur picks up on some of this stuff.
If they're in a place that's a chutznik cocoon...

חייך קודמים. A person should do what's best for themselves, not for society, but I agree that there are definitely many bochurim who would do better not coming to EY.

[S209]

Definitely a factor in the yeshiva world as well. A significantly older BMG guy tends to be lagging far behind single yeshivish girls his age in terms of marriage material.

Wet streets don’t cause rain

[yfr bachur]

I'm a midget among giants (gedolim) and don't have a say in this conversation. . .

--but from my little corner, I'm surprised to hear this perspective that for (many or most?) Boys E"Y is a less conducive place to growing (even just strictly in learning). Perhaps these comments are true for the top-boys from top-yeshivos who get into the most elite yeshivos in EY.

It seems to me that learning in E"Y gives MANY boys (and girls):
--certain important maturing experiences of independence, free choice, self-discovery, exposure to a diversity of frum people/families/lifestyles (beyond their own), that are not generally as available to those learning in conventional yeshivos in America.
--experiences that help prepare them for adult and married life (where there is more freedom, and where their parents/rabbeim etc are not directly influencing you as much) including having to deal with situations where not everyone and everything is being controlled so tightly. 
--experiences that help many of them figure out who they are, (i.e. what they are passionate about, what are their priorities, how they want to live their life, as distinct from everyone else in their shiur, what are they comfortable/uncomfortable with) and feel more ready to make the leap toward greater independence of married life (from their parents/rabbeim/yeshiva),
--It also facilities them experiencing various mundane but essential life tasks, like managing a budget, doing their own shopping, food preparation, to a greater degree then in beis medrash in America, which cultivates a greater sense of self-responsibility.
--While we don't seek to put ourselves in needless nisayon, it helps wean many bochurim off the "relatively high-influence highly-insulated environment and culture in Beis medrash in American yeshivos" and gives them some exposure to the "freedoms" of adulthood. This seems to me to be an important step, to help many young people to transition to and deal with the eventual "freedom" from "being under the wing of constant parental/rebbe authority", they will experience as a married adult.
--There is also exposure to less materialism, which I think it particularly important in current times, given the culture in America.
--There is also the unique elements of kedusha in EY (including a more overt and clear level of emunah - I found), as well as exposure to different styles of avodas Hashem, which is not as readily available in yeshivos in America.
--It broadens their perspective, enlightens them to different behaviors that arise when people have freedom/choice, which is important when they are thinking about who to marry, and how they want to establish their own homes/families/marriage.

For myself, and my children (who have done relatively well there), I think the experience in EY has been extremely valuable on these fronts and more, in addition to the shteiging/growing in torah & avodas Hashem.

Most of this can be replicated in the US.
European Bachurim are often already IN shiduchim when they come to EY at (20)21-22

[yelped]

Most of this can be replicated in the US.
European Bachurim are often already IN shiduchim when they come to EY at (20)21-22

So are American bochirim. If they're Chassidish. Basically BMG has to be cut out.

[Euclid]

So are American bochirim. If they're Chassidish. Basically BMG has to be cut out.

Huh? There aren't any American girls in shiduchim in EY; many Europeans marry Israeli girls, and for the others - the flight to/from a European girl's country is quite short.

Chassidishe bachurim could be in shiduchim in EY because there's no need for them to be in the same country as the prospective girl

[EliJelly]

Huh? There aren't any American girls in shiduchim in EY; Europeans marry Israeli girls and/or the flight to/from a European girl's country is quite short.

Chassidishe bachurim could be in shiduchim in EY because there's no need for them to be in the same country as the prospective girl

Lol!!

[moish145]

Most of this can be replicated in the US.
European Bachurim are often already IN shiduchim when they come to EY at (20)21-22

Probably 90% of European Bochurim do a few years in EY after they get married.

[yelped]

Huh? There aren't any American girls in shiduchim in EY; many Europeans marry Israeli girls, and for the others - the flight to/from a European girl's country is quite short.

Chassidishe bachurim could be in shiduchim in EY because there's no need for them to be in the same country as the prospective girl

Can't tell if you're serious regarding the first part or not, but the reason it works for Chassidim is because you travel back to meet the girl, because you only get to that point if it's serious.

[Euclid]

Can't tell if you're serious regarding the first part or not, but the reason it works for Chassidim is because you travel back to meet the girl, because you only get to that point if it's serious.

First part wasn't addressing your point.

But yeah, my response to you was that it has nothing to do with BMG, rather just the difference between the litvishe and chasidishe dating/shidduch system

[yelped]

First part wasn't addressing your point.

But yeah, my response to you was that it has nothing to do with BMG, rather just the difference between the litvishe and chasidishe dating/shidduch system

I wouldn't exclude BMG from the blame entirely.

[yfr bachur]

Probably 90% of European Bochurim do a few years in EY after they get married.

That's because there weren't any realistic options for fresh yungerleit where they come from, though this is changing in recent years.