Author Topic: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis  (Read 66848 times)

Offline Columbiadorm

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2012, 12:02:41 AM »
OT. I apologize

I tried to ignore it the first time..

And ur wife doesnt have a hard time deciding which shoes to where?

but soon after I saw this..

Wow, if only I had waited a few more years my wife wouldn't ask me what shoes to wear where!  Who knew?

wear* :)

Back to the topic at hand, I don't think people will ever come to an agreement here. Each has its pros and cons.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2012, 12:07:31 AM »
So if she decides to go to college first and then get married at say 30, that is OK?
One thing to keep in mind is that these boys/girls are not being forced to be married by 20 or 24 otherwise they will be cast off from their families and disgraced. The vast majority of them want to get married. It is a matter of what the community/parents feel is an acceptable age for their children to start dating. Hence its not a matter of ok or not ok, but rather what the individual wants and what is socially accepted, those two points must be distinguished.
  So if a girl wants to wait till she is 30 she could. But
The purpose of marriage and life goals an orthodox Jewish girl has versus and secular girl.
is where the answer to your question is. The vast majority of orthodox Jewish girls main goal in life is to raise a family based on a strong foundation of family values, religion etc... So as Dan pointed out, to raise such a family these gals/guys will want to be married before other factors may arise that could damage the chances of raising the aforementioned type of family...
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2012, 12:10:00 AM »
Back to the topic at hand, I don't think people will ever come to an agreement here. Each has its pros and cons.
The problem is where does it end? Some cultures see no problem with girls marring at say 15.
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Offline AJK

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2012, 12:20:18 AM »
One thing to keep in mind is that these boys/girls are not being forced to be married by 20 or 24 otherwise they will be cast off from their families and disgraced. The vast majority of them want to get married. It is a matter of what the community/parents feel is an acceptable age for their children to start dating. Hence its not a matter of ok or not ok, but rather what the individual wants and what is socially accepted, those two points must be distinguished.

Are you kidding? The "vast majority" want to get married because their society inculcates within them the feeling that if you're not married by age X, there's something wrong with them.

For an orthodox girl to make a personal decision to postpone marriage until age 30 is not like her choosing to have eggs for breakfast; perhaps it isn't "disgraced," but their community undoubtedly starts asking negatively connotated questions if a girl is not married by whatever age they have deemed "socially acceptable."  ::)
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Offline Dan

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2012, 12:31:20 AM »
Are you kidding? The "vast majority" want to get married because their society inculcates within them the feeling that if you're not married by age X, there's something wrong with them.

For an orthodox girl to make a personal decision to postpone marriage until age 30 is not like her choosing to have eggs for breakfast; perhaps it isn't "disgraced," but their community undoubtedly starts asking negatively connotated questions if a girl is not married by whatever age they have deemed "socially acceptable."  ::)
Or from a different perspective, most (though again, definitely not all) of the best and brightest get married at a young age so unless you want the leftovers you will attempt to do so as well.  I won't deny that I felt the same way as well, regardless of if I "felt ready" or did not.

Either way there definitely are societal pressures to get married young. 
Is that a bad thing?
I would argue that it's not.

-Even though the orthodox divorce rate is rising, it's still significantly lower than the general divorce rate, so we must be doing something right.

-The older you are (and the more experienced you are at dating) the pickier you get, for better or for worse.  That's a good thing if you wind up finding a perfect match, but in all likelihood it makes you more cynical about the possibility of ever finding your match.

-As we go through our 20s we become more and more set in our ways and less willing to change who we are for someone else.  Being married in this transitive time period between being a free teenager and a mature adult allows you to grow together and mold around your spouse, rather than having to mold to an established individual which is significantly more challenging.
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2012, 12:37:34 AM »
Or from a different perspective, most (though again, definitely not all) of the best and brightest get married at a young age so unless you want the leftovers you will attempt to do so as well.  I won't deny that I felt the same way as well, regardless of if I "felt ready" or did not.

Either way there definitely are societal pressures to get married young. 
Is that a bad thing?
I would argue that it's not.

-Even though the orthodox divorce rate is rising, it's still significantly lower than the general divorce rate, so we must be doing something right.

-The older you are (and the more experienced you are at dating) the pickier you get, for better or for worse.  That's a good thing if you wind up finding a perfect match, but in all likelihood it makes you more cynical about the possibility of ever finding your match.

-As we go through our 20s we become more and more set in our ways and less willing to change who we are for someone else.  Being married in this transitive time period between being a free teenager and a mature adult allows you to grow together and mold around your spouse, rather than having to mold to an established individual which is significantly more challenging.
The divorce rate among Catholics used to be low also. Many remained married because of the stigma associated with being divorced. I would suspect this is the same in most cultures.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2012, 12:43:09 AM »
I'm sure you can attribute some of it to stigma, though I truthfully don't think that's a major factor in our low divorce rate (and extremely low infidelity rate for that matter)

Maybe orthodox jews are just happier?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703525704575061442303169342.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/happiest-person-america-hawaiian-alvin-wong-fits-gallup/story?id=13087258#.TzdRLPkvGuI
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Offline Chaikel

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2012, 01:24:50 AM »
As a parent of three daughters 19 is young, period. They have a hard enough time deciding what shoes to wear let alone make a decision about marriage.
They generally don't make the decision themselves. They have parents and/or [older] people they trust and rely on to guide and advise them.

Marriage is a lifelong decision, and should be made as a logical choice not just "going where your heart tells you"
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2012, 01:35:12 AM »
Are you kidding? The "vast majority" want to get married because their society inculcates within them the feeling that if you're not married by age X, there's something wrong with them.

For an orthodox girl to make a personal decision to postpone marriage until age 30 is not like her choosing to have eggs for breakfast; perhaps it isn't "disgraced," but their community undoubtedly starts asking negatively connotated questions if a girl is not married by whatever age they have deemed "socially acceptable."  ::)
On the same note all of these girls are orthodox because this is what they were born into. To say that a girl at the age of 20 is still religious because of the social norm is a sad thought. I have a little bit more faith in the free choice of people and hope the society they live in is inline with their beliefs and feelings on life. Still you have a valid point and the argument of devils advocate is a strong one that is, if these same people meaning you and me, were not born into orthodox homes would we be living the same lifestyle? probably not but I like to think I would have found this way of life. So I suppose I cut the line a bit to fine, and yet it has to be drawn somewhere...
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Offline SuperFlyer

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2012, 01:45:39 AM »
Completely agree to Dans last message.

@ helpme: there is a stigma in any religious social entourage, but in Judaism getting divorced is something that is allowed, vs other religions were its not allowed, or .....

Offline HelpMe

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2012, 07:40:39 AM »
They generally don't make the decision themselves. They have parents and/or [older] people they trust and rely on to guide and advise them.

Marriage is a lifelong decision, and should be made as a logical choice not just "going where your heart tells you"
I would hope this would be the case for all marriages and not age dependent. It seems that the reason for younger marriages is to put this decision more in the hands of the elders and less on the ones getting married.
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2012, 07:47:06 AM »
Completely agree to Dans last message.

@ helpme: there is a stigma in any religious social entourage, but in Judaism getting divorced is something that is allowed, vs other religions were its not allowed, or .....
…but to what degree would that be accepted and not looked down upon?
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Offline SuperFlyer

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2012, 08:06:44 AM »
How do you expect it to be clear cut.

A bit of stigma is good, otherwise people would just get divorced to easily.

Offline moish

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2012, 08:18:30 AM »
And for girls 18-19 instead of maybe 20-21.
from purely a shidduch crisis standpoint, girls getting married earlier wont help

Offline Chaikel

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2012, 10:37:19 AM »
I would hope this would be the case for all marriages and not age dependent.
It seems to me that in nearly all marriages out of our circles, the parents have no say in the matter. They my be asked for their blessing or advice, but they will rarely if ever, have the ability to stop a marriage. And lets face it: Most people walking down the aisle, whether they're 18,30, or 40, don't have the experience and knowledge it takes to make the right decision

It seems that the reason for younger marriages is to put this decision more in the hands of the elders and less on the ones getting married.
But to be clear, no one is forced into a marriage they don't want.
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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2012, 10:41:27 AM »
It seems to me that in nearly all marriages out of our circles, the parents have no say in the matter.

Why so? Which circles are you referring to?

Offline Dan

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2012, 11:42:24 AM »
from purely a shidduch crisis standpoint, girls getting married earlier wont help
I don't think this has anything to do with solving the shidduch crisis, but a desire from the rabbis that boys/girls shouldn't waste time once they're done with the "system," which in Chabad ends after a year or 2 of seminary for girls at the age of 18-19 and after smicha for boys at the age of 21-22.  If they're going to keep on studying then great, but for the others that will just idle until they start dating a couple years later...

Personally I got smicha at 21 and got my masters in business by the time I got married 2 years later, so I don't consider that to have been wasted time.

Why so? Which circles are you referring to?
Parents obviously have control over who you date in the shidduch system, I'm not sure what Chaikel is referring to there.  But once you start going out the ball is definitely in your court and you decide how long you need to date and if this will be the person you want to marry or not.
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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2012, 11:48:34 AM »


Parents obviously have control over who you date in the shidduch system, I'm not sure what Chaikel is referring to there.  But once you start going out the ball is definitely in your court and you decide how long you need to date and if this will be the person you want to marry or not.
I'm with you on that.

Offline HelpMe

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2012, 11:57:16 AM »
It seems to me that in nearly all marriages out of our circles, the parents have no say in the matter. They my be asked for their blessing or advice, but they will rarely if ever, have the ability to stop a marriage. And lets face it: Most people walking down the aisle, whether they're 18,30, or 40, don't have the experience and knowledge it takes to make the right decision
But to be clear, no one is forced into a marriage they don't want.
I was married when I was 31. I am glad I did not make this decision when I was 21 or it would be a good bet I would be added to the divorce statistics.
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2012, 12:01:06 PM »
OT. I apologize

I tried to ignore it the first time..

but soon after I saw this..

wear* :)
I think he meant "wear where", as in, which ones to wear to which event