Author Topic: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis  (Read 89934 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #260 on: September 15, 2022, 08:12:37 AM »
Do you know of cheaper quality matchmaking options?
Ya, it is called dating.
They can charge 200 or as some do 200k+. Show me the numbers on success rate.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #261 on: September 15, 2022, 08:13:47 AM »
If these guys would throw around names like shadchanim it would be much less.

Yet the disparity is still great to ignore.

Another thing is that matchmakers are setting up the first date. After that they can step away. Shadchanim are working before and after each date until it’s fully handed over.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #262 on: September 15, 2022, 08:49:10 AM »
Ya, it is called dating.
They can charge 200 or as some do 200k+. Show me the numbers on success rate.

For $200 a match, you’re getting a matchmaker with a good reputation and has spent time and resources to set you up? If not, what is the least you’ve heard for that?
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #263 on: September 15, 2022, 09:45:01 AM »
For $200 a match, you’re getting a matchmaker with a good reputation and has spent time and resources to set you up? If not, what is the least you’ve heard for that?
They all might have a good reputation but what does that mean?

Going by what I think you are asking it would be around 1500. I only know a few that used them and all with zero results (marriage).
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Offline pbf

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #264 on: September 15, 2022, 10:43:12 AM »
I'm talking middle class. $10k is for the top of the line matchmakers (for wealthier individuals), but I was told $2k is the minimum. Now, I'm not expecting frum people to pay $2k for a single match, but translating the same workload into the frum market would be much more money than what the shadchanim are currently earning. If they're lucky, they get paid $2k for a successful match out of 10 tries.

I also found it interesting that they are happy to pay regardless of results, making the match is the deliverable.

ETA: You may consider it "boutique", yet I'm guessing that there are far more "matchmakers" than there are shadchanim.

By this logic I'd have spent upwards of 50k over the years.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #265 on: September 15, 2022, 10:50:32 AM »
They all might have a good reputation but what does that mean?

Going by what I think you are asking it would be around 1500. I only know a few that used them and all with zero results (marriage).

What I mean is that they are a professional matchmaker, and they have set up couples successfully in the past. Not some random person throwing random names at you and with no known history of success.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #266 on: September 15, 2022, 10:54:21 AM »
By this logic I'd have spent upwards of 50k over the years.

Have you received at least $50k worth of effort over the years? Regardless, if this system is a burden for someone that has been set up many times, I'm sure many shadchanim would be happy to waive/lower the fee.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #267 on: September 15, 2022, 10:55:49 AM »
What I mean is that they are a professional matchmaker, and they have set up couples successfully in the past. Not some random person throwing random names at you and with no known history of success.
I know what they claim but it is all secretive. They will all have success stories but what are the actual numbers?
I would think in the Jewish community they would have great success since marriage is looked at differently.
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Offline pbf

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #268 on: September 15, 2022, 11:02:42 AM »
Have you received at least $50k worth of effort over the years? Regardless, if this system is a burden for someone that has been set up many times, I'm sure many shadchanim would be happy to waive/lower the fee.

I'm not sure how to quantify that. I've been set up many times, sometimes one quick date, sometimes a few (still single so 'unsuccesfull' in that realm).

Although to be clear, probably about 98% of it was friends and acquaintances, not professional matchmakers.

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #269 on: September 15, 2022, 11:30:55 AM »
I know what they claim but it is all secretive. They will all have success stories but what are the actual numbers?
I would think in the Jewish community they would have great success since marriage is looked at differently.

When I mean successful, I mean that the person is a known matchmaker that you are referred to, or are given references. Not a random person you found online that may have started yesterday and is just throwing names taken off facebook. I'm not sure it's possible to pin down a success rate as I'm sure that varies greatly by the person,region, etc. For example it should be much easier to find a match for a religious Christian than an unreligious person. NYC is easier than Oklohoma.

I'm not saying it's worth it for a non-Jew to hire a matchmaker, but trying to compare what they pay vs the standard payment for Orthodox Jews.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #270 on: September 15, 2022, 11:36:21 AM »
I'm not sure how to quantify that. I've been set up many times, sometimes one quick date, sometimes a few (still single so 'unsuccesfull' in that realm).

Although to be clear, probably about 98% of it was friends and acquaintances, not professional matchmakers.

I was referring to paying shadchanim that devote many hours a week to making matches, so that would not apply really apply to you. To quantify the value - think about how many hours they may have spent towards finding you a match, following up after dates, etc. Take that estimate and multiply it by an hourly amount like $20-30. I think most of us receive far more value than what we pay, just based on hours worked.
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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #271 on: September 15, 2022, 11:38:18 AM »
When I mean successful, I mean that the person is a known matchmaker that you are referred to, or are given references. Not a random person you found online that may have started yesterday and is just throwing names taken off facebook. I'm not sure it's possible to pin down a success rate as I'm sure that varies greatly by the person,region, etc. For example it should be much easier to find a match for a religious Christian than an unreligious person. NYC is easier than Oklohoma.

I'm not saying it's worth it for a non-Jew to hire a matchmaker, but trying to compare what they pay vs the standard payment for Orthodox Jews.
Got it.
For the average middle class person 2k would not be unreasonable.
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Offline pbf

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #272 on: September 15, 2022, 11:39:24 AM »
I was referring to paying shadchanim that devote many hours a week to making matches, so that would not apply really apply to you. To quantify the value - think about how many hours they may have spent towards finding you a match, following up after dates, etc. Take that estimate and multiply it by an hourly amount like $20-30. I think most of us receive far more value than what we pay, just based on hours worked.

It's really been so few cases for me but I see your point. It would still add up fast.
Though, majority of shadchanim spend majority of their time on young people, majority of whom get married pretty quickly.
So the number of people spending large chunks of money would probably be pretty small.
(I usually send a small gift after to anyone that sets me up, but it's just a token)

Offline yerushabubby

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #273 on: September 15, 2022, 12:19:24 PM »
Saying the same thing - 1/10 being successful was referring to matches getting married, you’re saying it’s 8%. But yes, regardless I think it’s a better system where the shadchan is paid for each match made, regardless of outcome. Something like 250-300 per side would mean earning $5-7k for every 10-12 matches made, instead of 2k.

How much have you seen people pay for a reputable match maker?

Many shadchanim that I know of make suggestions that are totally ridiculous to people who know the two families.  I have been involved in researching suggestions for single friends where the shadchan, when asked what made him think of this boy and this girl together, had answers along the lines of "she looks somewhat sephardi, and his mother is sepahrdi" or other equally ridiculous answers. 

If the shadchan does his research properly, then paying them for it makes sense.  Otherwise, even if the couple agrees to meet (generally out of desperation), I do not believe that any payment is warranted.

Another point to consider is how many  people already struggle to find the money for all of the expenses associated with shidduchim.  Requiring payment for dates will make people much pickier, and make the shidduch crisis worse - specially for lower income families.

Offline JMHO

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #274 on: September 15, 2022, 12:29:22 PM »
How much have you seen a reputable match maker?
FTFY

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #275 on: September 19, 2022, 04:19:39 PM »
I think if we taught gemara to girls and they came across what Reish Lakish says on today's daf, we can solve a lot of issues.

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #276 on: September 19, 2022, 04:30:41 PM »
I think if we taught gemara to girls and they came across what Reish Lakish says on today's daf, we can solve a lot of issues.
Do tell

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #277 on: September 19, 2022, 04:34:39 PM »
A gentile employee mentioned he is going on a date set up through a matchmaker.

Nu? How was? Is he going to see her again?

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #278 on: September 19, 2022, 04:44:08 PM »
Do tell
אִיהִי בְּכׇל דְּהוּ נִיחָא לַהּ, כִּדְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ. דְּאָמַר רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ: ״טָב לְמֵיתַב טַן דּוּ מִלְּמֵיתַב אַרְמְלוּ״.

The Gemara answers: There is a difference between a man and a woman in this regard, for it is amenable to her to be with any man, flawed though he may be, as taught by Reish Lakish: As Reish Lakish said that women say: It is better to dwell together as two [tan du] than to dwell alone as if a widow. Women will prefer any marriage to remaining single.

Offline aygart

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Re: Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis
« Reply #279 on: September 19, 2022, 04:47:42 PM »
אִיהִי בְּכׇל דְּהוּ נִיחָא לַהּ, כִּדְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ. דְּאָמַר רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ: ״טָב לְמֵיתַב טַן דּוּ מִלְּמֵיתַב אַרְמְלוּ״.

The Gemara answers: There is a difference between a man and a woman in this regard, for it is amenable to her to be with any man, flawed though he may be, as taught by Reish Lakish: As Reish Lakish said that women say: It is better to dwell together as two [tan du] than to dwell alone as if a widow. Women will prefer any marriage to remaining single.

Well, they don't plan on fulfilling the end of that gemara.
Feelings don't care about your facts