Marry Young / Shidduch Crisis

[jye]

And this is despite girls going on the list earlier than boys.

I'd like to see hard evidence that the "shortage of boys" is anything but anecdotal. There can be plenty of other reasons for a crisis, including parents, boys, and girls that are too picky and/or are looking for hollywood style love.

My son was able to get a yes every week, my daughter perhaps once in 3-6 months (excluding yeses from boys with mental and or severe family issues. My son wasn’t ok with those either so apples to apples.) My son was average looking for above average girls. My daughter was top of her class and wiling to go with less than top boys. Middle class income good looks, average job etc.

Most of my sons shiur get t engaged within 6 months of starting to date. Most of my daughters class was still single 18 months later. The Rov of our community told us this was consistent with most families in our community.

[avromie7]

Ask everyone who has a boy and girl in the.parsha at the same time as I have had and they will tell you that whether one is looking for long-term learner, short term kollel, or straight out working boy there is an imbalance between the girls and boys in the parsha.

I think there is a very simple explanation for this that everyone is overlooking. I'm making up numbers here, so don't nitpick at them. If on average a boy gets 20 resumes per year and says no to 3/4 of them, every girl will get 5 resumes per year. This makes some feel there are more options for the boys, in reality, the girl doesn't know about most shidduchim they were redt.

[aygart]

My son was able to get a yes every week, my daughter perhaps once in 3-6 months (excluding yeses from boys with mental and or severe family issues. My son wasn’t ok with those either so apples to apples.) My son was average looking for above average girls. My daughter was top of her class and wiling to go with less than top boys. Middle class income good looks, average job etc. The Rov of our community told us this was consistent with most families in our community.

This is only indicative of potential issues in the dating process. This definitely makes one feel like there is a crisis but does not show that there is one.

[avromie7]

My son was able to get a yes every week, my daughter perhaps once in 3-6 months (excluding yeses from boys with mental and or severe family issues. My son wasn’t ok with those either so apples to apples.) My son was average looking for above average girls. My daughter was top of her class and wiling to go with less than top boys. Middle class income good looks, average job etc.

Most of my sons shiur get t engaged within 6 months of starting to date. Most of my daughters class was still single 18 months later. The Rov of our community told us this was consistent with most families in our community.

Is this indicative of boys generally narrowing the age gap? The 19 y/o girls are stuck waiting a couple of years for the then 21 y/o boys to start dating.

[Dan]

This is only indicative of potential issues in the dating process.

I think this is the crisis and it's not a numbers crisis. But I'm willing to be proven wrong.
The old Lubavitch list backs me up, time to make a Lakewood list to prove me wrong?

[jye]

I think there is a very simple explanation for this that everyone is overlooking. I'm making up numbers here, so don't nitpick at them. If on average a boy gets 20 resumes per year and says no to 3/4 of them, every girl will get 5 resumes per year. This makes some feel there are more options for the boys, in reality, the girl doesn't know about most shidduchim they were redt.

How does that explain the girl saying yes to any average boy that comes her way while actually going out a handful of times in 2 years vs the boy going out over 10 times as often ?

[jye]

This is only indicative of potential issues in the dating process. This definitely makes one feel like there is a crisis but does not show that there is one.

There are definitely issues in the process at the very least. One only has to speak to the major Lakewood Shadchanim to hear that girls have a much harder time than boys. The age gap theory is debatable, but the reality on the ground is not.

[Dan]

There are definitely issues in the process at the very least. One only has to speak to the major Lakewood Shadchanim to hear that girls have a much harder time than boys. The age gap theory is debatable, but the reality on the ground is not.

Yes, we have heard for decades that girls have it harder. I haven't seen proof that it's due to numbers, in fact I've seen pretty balanced numbers, as one would expect anywhere outside of China.

[shapsam]

I think this is the crisis and it's not a numbers crisis. But I'm willing to be proven wrong.
The old Lubavitch list backs me up, time to make a Lakewood list to prove me wrong?

Is there a current lubavitch list? May have gotten much worse in recent years.

[yawn]

The age gap theory is debatable, but the reality on the ground is not.

^^^ this ^^^
We can all argue about advanced math that most of us can’t understand. But no one in charedi litvish circles knows more single boys than girls. It’s a fact at this point. You can debate the reasons, who’s to blame, and what to do about it. But don’t bury your head in the sand.

[avromie7]

How does that explain the girl saying yes to any average boy that comes her way while actually going out a handful of times in 2 years vs the boy going out over 10 times as often ?

It doesn't explain that, but another option is the boys are generally more picky. When a new batch comes home from seminary, many boys (mothers) want "the best". After all, they just got a bunch of options. After a couple of years reality sets in for most, while some hold out a lot longer waiting for the "perfect" girl. Some who never change, leaving them single many years later.

My wife has a close friend who was redt to a boy a few times by different shadchanim as well as mentioned by many friends. His mother refuses to allow him to go out with her, and for some reason, she is still making all the dating decisions. I don't know either of them, so I have no idea if it's a good shidduch, but the fact that the mother is making decisions for her 30 y/o son is a big problem.

[avromie7]

^^^ this ^^^
We can all argue about advanced math that most of us can’t understand. But no one in charedi litvish circles knows more single boys than girls. It’s a fact at this point. You can debate the reasons, who’s to blame, and what to do about it. But don’t bury your head in the sand.

Source? I don't keep a tally, but I don't think this is true for me.

[avromie7]

Is there a current lubavitch list? May have gotten much worse in recent years.

Do you have any reason to believe it did?

[jye]

It doesn't explain that, but another option is the boys are generally more picky. When a new batch comes home from seminary, many boys (mothers) want "the best". After all, they just got a bunch of options. After a couple of years reality sets in for most, while some hold out a lot longer waiting for the "perfect" girl. Some who never change, leaving them single many years later.

My wife has a close friend who was redt to a boy a few times by different shadchanim as well as mentioned by many friends. His mother refuses to allow him to go out with her, and for some reason, she is still making all the dating decisions. I don't know either of them, so I have no idea if it's a good shidduch, but the fact that the mother is making decisions for her 30 y/o son is a big problem.

More picky should equal fewer dates given an even number of available boys and girls.

[avromie7]

More picky should equal fewer dates given an even number of available boys and girls.

The picky ones get fewer dates while the less picky ones get more. The picky ones know the reason they go out less often is because they only want the best and they are OK with it. It's not like they have a shortage of resumes.

[aygart]

There are definitely issues in the process at the very least. One only has to speak to the major Lakewood Shadchanim to hear that girls have a much harder time than boys. The age gap theory is debatable, but the reality on the ground is not.

Is your issue about getting dates or about getting married?

[Dan]

Is there a current lubavitch list? May have gotten much worse in recent years.

Not public anymore that I can find, but I asked the owner of ChabadMatch.com, which is a list accessible by Shadchanim. Singles have to pay a $25 one time membership fee to be listed.

He said they currently have 3,100 Chabad singles, with about a 55-45 ratio of girls to boys.
Yesterday, the 700th single found their bashert via his site since its inception.

I asked about his theory for the ratio and he said, "There are more chassidish girls than chassidish guys, so they are often inundated with suggestions, making them sometimes less likely to register."

[gozalim]

I asked about his theory for the ratio and he said, "There are more chassidish girls than chassidish guys, so they are often inundated with suggestions, making them sometimes less likely to register."

There are other cultural differences between chasidish guys and girls also making them less likely to register

though wouldn't rule out the difference in difficulty finding as a contributing factor as well

[jye]

Is your issue about getting dates or about getting married?

Are you asking how the crisis should be defined. Ultimately the issue is the number of girls not able to marry at a reasonable age. If the average was one date every two years but all normal girls could expect to be married by 23-24 (BTW demonstrating that by age 43 everyone is married to somebody does not necessarily mean there is no crisis) I wouldn’t call it a crisis.

[jye]

Not public anymore that I can find, but I asked the owner of ChabadMatch.com, which is a list accessible by Shadchanim. Singles have to pay a $25 one time membership fee to be listed.

He said they currently have 3,100 Chabad singles, with about a 55-45 ratio of girls to boys.
Yesterday, the 700th single found their bashert via his site since its inception.

I asked about his theory for the ratio and he said, "There are more chassidish girls than chassidish guys, so they are often inundated with suggestions, making them sometimes less likely to register."

Are you talking specifically chabad? I’ve always heard that the chassidim where boys marry much younger have a reverse issue where the boys have a hard time finding girls.