Law School

[henche]

Or at $170k 7-8 years out of law school. Apparently that's when Marriott hires and what they pay. Can't imagine taking close to a 50% paycut to go in-house.

Sorry, remind me if you're practicing biglaw--i can def see doing exactly that, if the hours are right.

[Aaaron]

Sorry, remind me if you're practicing biglaw--i can def see doing exactly that, if the hours are right.

Exactly.  Look at how many federal prosecutors came from biglaw.

[hvaces42]

I think both you (re earlier discussion about solo) and your dentist are significant outliers.

Can i get an age range for reference?

I just dont think that you guys calling me and my kids dentist "significant outliers" really have much real life experience. You guys look at cookie cutter cubicle sitting as a career and anything else as an outlier. Go out there and see the reality.

Most of my colleagues at 3-5 years out were making 4 and 5 times what i was as a solo in their own solo or 2 attorney firms. All doing real estate work. The opportunity to invest with, or broker deals for, our clients, far outweighs any regular, paycheck receiving, biglaw job. 

A dentist, in NY who doesnt clear 400-500k a year is not working hard enough. Specialists like Endo, Ortho or Perio should be clearing $1-2MM within 3-5 years.   Thats just the reality from all the "outliers" I know.

[ExGingi]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/business/dealbook/an-expensive-law-degree-and-no-place-to-use-it.html

[CS1]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/business/dealbook/an-expensive-law-degree-and-no-place-to-use-it.html

2 mistakes he made:
1) His law school is ranked #183
2) He borrowed $200K at age 39. Not smart.

[hvaces42]

2 mistakes he made:
1) His law school is ranked #183
2) He borrowed $200K at age 39. Not smart.

1. He's in a small market.
2. He probably has a pension from his job as a police officer.
3. Indiana has reciprocity with other states where he can just be admitted on motion in, for instance, NY.

[jj1000]

Can i get an age range for reference?

I just dont think that you guys calling me and my kids dentist "significant outliers" really have much real life experience. You guys look at cookie cutter cubicle sitting as a career and anything else as an outlier. Go out there and see the reality.

Most of my colleagues at 3-5 years out were making 4 and 5 times what i was as a solo in their own solo or 2 attorney firms. All doing real estate work. The opportunity to invest with, or broker deals for, our clients, far outweighs any regular, paycheck receiving, biglaw job. 

A dentist, in NY who doesnt clear 400-500k a year is not working hard enough. Specialists like Endo, Ortho or Perio should be clearing $1-2MM within 3-5 years.   Thats just the reality from all the "outliers" I know.

You can google average salaries for any profession. Dentists on average in Brooklyn make $150,924-$197,611.

[CS91]

Sorry, remind me if you're practicing biglaw--i can def see doing exactly that, if the hours are right.

To each their own. I personally wouldn't. And no, I'm not practicing yet, but I am fully aware of what I am getting myself into and I understand that working long hours is what it takes to support a frum family and be comfortable. I grew up seeing my father working long, hard hours and probably spending about 3 months of the year out of the country on business. Would I have loved to have him around a bit more? Sure. But I understood that he was doing what he had to in order to provide for us. It's all a matter of perspective.

[Ergel]

You can google average salaries for any profession. Dentists on average in Brooklyn make $150,924-$197,611.

Statistics shmatistics. The 4 dentists know make more than that

[henche]

You can google average salaries for any profession. Dentists on average in Brooklyn make $150,924-$197,611.

Assuming a normal distribution

[skyguy918]

Can i get an age range for reference?

I just dont think that you guys calling me and my kids dentist "significant outliers" really have much real life experience. You guys look at cookie cutter cubicle sitting as a career and anything else as an outlier. Go out there and see the reality.

Most of my colleagues at 3-5 years out were making 4 and 5 times what i was as a solo in their own solo or 2 attorney firms. All doing real estate work. The opportunity to invest with, or broker deals for, our clients, far outweighs any regular, paycheck receiving, biglaw job. 

A dentist, in NY who doesnt clear 400-500k a year is not working hard enough. Specialists like Endo, Ortho or Perio should be clearing $1-2MM within 3-5 years.   Thats just the reality from all the "outliers" I know.

I'm far from an expert in this subject, so I'm not here to make any sort of definitive claim. But your view seems extremely anecdotal. As jj pointed out, you can google average salaries pretty easily.

A few things I'm curious about though. You seem to have a fairly precise sense of what all your colleagues are making. Are you guesstimating? Is this something people openly discuss? Also, maybe I'm asking because I simply can't fathom these numbers, but it seems to me there's a strong possibility that the numbers you're talking about are revenue, not income. Is that the case?

I guess my point here is that you're presenting a specific picture of private practice - hang up that shingle, work hard, and watch the money flow in. But the reality is that success in private practice involves a whole skill set that isn't key to success when working as a professional for another company or firm. And on top of that, even if you have all the necessary skills, that doesn't guarantee success either - there are plenty of 'external' factors at play as well. Working for a company/firm isn't a guarantee in the long run either, as you can be fired, laid off, etc - but it's much more stable and secure without a doubt.

[ExGingi]

Statistics shmatistics. The 4 dentists know make more than that

According to what I was told by a wholesaler presenting dental insurance, dentists have to work hard to build their practice. Once the practice is built and established, they might be making decent money (and I will add that רובם גנבים and will milk out whatever they can from any insurance coverage available). If they get into cosmetic dentistry and go for the higher end, I can see how the numbers would be much higher. But for someone practicing basic dentistry, I believe the numbers are not so great (though not bad) if they're 100% honest and will only do what's best for the patient.

[henche]

According to what I was told by a wholesaler presenting dental insurance, dentists have to work hard to build their practice. Once the practice is built and established, they might be making decent money (and I will add that רובם גנבים and will milk out whatever they can from any insurance coverage available). If they get into cosmetic dentistry and go for the higher end, I can see how the numbers would be much higher. But for someone practicing basic dentistry, I believe the numbers are not so great (though not bad) if they're 100% honest and will only do what's best for the patient.

I agree dentists are ganavim.  You go to five dentists, you get 5 different diagnoses and 5 wildly different prices. 

Trump should deport them

[ExGingi]

You go to five dentists, you get 5 different diagnoses and 5 wildly different prices. 

Anyone going to 5 different dentists to address an issue probably has deeper issues

[henche]

Anyone going to 5 different dentists to address an issue probably has deeper issues

That's what 2 of the therapists said.

[ExGingi]

That's what 2 of the therapists said.

ALOL

[hvaces42]

You can google average salaries for any profession. Dentists on average in Brooklyn make $150,924-$197,611.

So that means some make more and some make less. Does that make everyone who doesnt make the average an outlier?

[hvaces42]

I'm far from an expert in this subject, so I'm not here to make any sort of definitive claim. But your view seems extremely anecdotal. As jj pointed out, you can google average salaries pretty easily.

A few things I'm curious about though. You seem to have a fairly precise sense of what all your colleagues are making. Are you guesstimating? Is this something people openly discuss? Also, maybe I'm asking because I simply can't fathom these numbers, but it seems to me there's a strong possibility that the numbers you're talking about are revenue, not income. Is that the case?

I guess my point here is that you're presenting a specific picture of private practice - hang up that shingle, work hard, and watch the money flow in. But the reality is that success in private practice involves a whole skill set that isn't key to success when working as a professional for another company or firm. And on top of that, even if you have all the necessary skills, that doesn't guarantee success either - there are plenty of 'external' factors at play as well. Working for a company/firm isn't a guarantee in the long run either, as you can be fired, laid off, etc - but it's much more stable and secure without a doubt.

I'm obviously guesstimating numbers. You usually know what other attorneys are getting at a closing. When your in an attorney's office and his staff tells you they are on their 4th, closing of the day you can extrapolate from there.

Private practice requires interpersonal skills. The same skills that are required to make partner and maintain partner level status/ book of business at any decent firm. There is never a guarantee of success. Security lasts until you have to make partner or a downturn in the economy, whichever comes first.

[skyguy918]

So that means some make more and some make less. Does that make everyone who doesnt make the average an outlier?

You were suggesting more than double that. There would have to be hordes of dentists making pennies to offset a significant percentage of dentists making half a million. So yes, it does.

[hvaces42]

You were suggesting more than double that. There would have to be hordes of dentists making pennies to offset a significant percentage of dentists making half a million. So yes, it does.

So lets get ancedotal. My dentist, my endodontist, my periodontist, my kids pediatric dentist (closed to new patients), my kids orthodontist and his partner my neighbors brother in law who is a pediatric dentist (closed to new patients), all of them separate people, make 500k and above. So it may be ancedotal but every one that i know except my friend who works in a public health clinic as a dentist making "only" 200k is making above the average in Brooklyn.