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Law school exams for yeshiva guys 101, by henche
1. Read the story. 
2. Write down all the taynas that anyone might have, and what taynas the other guy might have back, and what the halacha probably is. 
3. Hit "submit"
4. Get a job.
5. Never see your family again!!!!!!!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/success-in-law-school.html
« Last edited by jj1000 on September 15, 2016, 08:19:54 AM »

Author Topic: Law School  (Read 201848 times)

Offline Hirshthg

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Re: Law School
« Reply #150 on: December 17, 2013, 10:52:00 PM »
Nothing will change. Law schools are a cash cow. Simple as that. No one is gonna kill the cow
FTFY

You can add a lot of talk of making law school 2 years, so better wait till it's just 2 years.

The public is talking about the 2 year law school,  and they are also talking about making it cheaper, however the administration  and the judiciary is talking about making it better. Although they are not saying this better takes longer and costs more. You are right they are a cash cow, and that cow is going to get feed better as time goes on.

As for nothing changing 5 additional "parts" for the bar exam are drafted and pilot tested as we speak. Maybe nothing will change however that is looking less and less likely.

Exactly why it depends on the school, from an investment standpoint.

Top schools the majority of the class is making $160,000 first year out. That can justify $200,000 debt. But a lower school the average student doesn't even find a job as a lawyer and has $100,000 debt.

See earlier in this thread a link to school employment and salary stats.

1 out of 5 students on average end up practicing law for a living. Even your top tier schools average at around 80 not finding a job in the first year for part pay positions. For the vast majority the answer to Dave321's question is, no.

Offline Dave321

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Re: Law School
« Reply #151 on: December 17, 2013, 11:12:35 PM »
Ok thanks all for the advice... ill keep doing some research.

maybe ill just get an MBA. I can get one for about 35k lol....

Offline jj1000

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Re: Law School
« Reply #152 on: December 17, 2013, 11:13:32 PM »
@Hirshthg 80 what don't find a job?

And the judiciary is also talking about making law school 2 years. Well at least justice Kennedy was last I spoke with him :P
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Offline twentie4hrs

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Re: Law School
« Reply #153 on: December 17, 2013, 11:20:32 PM »

@Hirshthg 80 what don't find a job?

And the judiciary is also talking about making law school 2 years. Well at least justice Kennedy was last I spoke with him :P

It all depends on WHY someone wants to go.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Law School
« Reply #154 on: December 17, 2013, 11:24:19 PM »
It all depends on WHY someone wants to go.

Couldn't have said better.
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Offline shiframeir

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Re: Law School
« Reply #155 on: December 17, 2013, 11:57:46 PM »

Top schools the majority of the class is making $160,000 first year out. That can justify $200,000 debt. But a lower school the average student doesn't even find a job as a lawyer and has $100,000 debt.
 

dont know what u mean by top schools, but after the top 5, no "majority of the class" is making 160k/getting NY biglaw, and if you plan to wear a yarmulke to interviews, u better be law review/top grades. I've interviewed several ortho jews at my firm, and its pretty impossible.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Law School
« Reply #156 on: December 18, 2013, 12:21:19 AM »
dont know what u mean by top schools, but after the top 5, no "majority of the class" is making 160k/getting NY biglaw, and if you plan to wear a yarmulke to interviews, u better be law review/top grades. I've interviewed several ortho jews at my firm, and its pretty impossible.
Top 5 sounds about right. I know Penn more than other schools and a majority of the class is earning160K first year out.

And interviews depend on the firm and person. I know a ddf member who has a yalmuka and beard and got a job at a top 5 firm. So everything is relative.

The bottom line if you love it do it. If not there may be better way to make money working that many hours a week.
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Offline michael

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Re: Law School
« Reply #157 on: December 18, 2013, 08:29:45 AM »
Dave,

If you want to take the patent bar, you need an undergraduate degree in one of the subjects listed in the link http://patbar.com/uspto-patent-bar-exam-requirements.shtml

About the cost of law school and whether its worth it: I always tell people to spend some time studying for the LSAT. If you find that you are naturally good at it, and ultimately do well on the LSAT, the numbers game may change somewhat. Of course, you may want to take a professional course before actually taking the exam, but I'm recommending to just buy a book and play around a bit first.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Law School
« Reply #158 on: December 18, 2013, 08:43:16 AM »
It's a gamble. For some it works out for others it doesn't. You won't know for sure, so consider the possibility of failure and determine whether you can handle it financially.

Offline henche

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Re: Law School
« Reply #159 on: December 18, 2013, 10:25:36 AM »
dont know what u mean by top schools, but after the top 5, no "majority of the class" is making 160k/getting NY biglaw, and if you plan to wear a yarmulke to interviews, u better be law review/top grades. I've interviewed several ortho jews at my firm, and its pretty impossible.

I'd say "majority of the class" who wants biglaw is getting it probably all the way through top 14 schools.

But I'm more intrigued by your yarmuke comment. My friends and I have wondered about this issue, but aren't quite sure how to study it. We certainly know many yarlmuke wearers at elite firms, but also know some yarlmuke wearing outliers not getting the jobs they would expect based on their school and grades.

I'm quite curious what your experience with that is

Offline shiframeir

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Re: Law School
« Reply #160 on: December 18, 2013, 10:43:15 AM »
I feel that smart NY recruiters know what the yarlmuke entails, a guarantee of less availability and more special attention (food/timing of events etc.), and thats just a nice simple reason to move on to the so many other capable candidates (kinda like only hiring from the top 14, cut out yarlmulkes). I dont think that's even actionable discrimination, considering that availability probably should be a BFOQ at most positions in Biglaw (maybe not TE work).

Offline AJK

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Re: Law School
« Reply #161 on: December 18, 2013, 10:52:37 AM »
I personally wear a yarmulke, am at a big NY law firm, and can tell you that yes, it means all those things (less availability, food requirements, etc), but it also means a guaranteed hard worker (to make up for the lost time, I come in Sundays, etc), a person who has dealt with not one curriculum for his entire life, but two (twice as much as most other candidates), and though not without exception: an honest person with integrity, a character trait that may or may not be inculcated as much if I were not a religious Jew*; etc.

I think recruiters know that, and I think that in some instances, a religious Jew actually has a better chance.

*I am, of course, not saying people who are not religious Jews cannot be honest, please don't interpret it that way.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 10:57:48 AM by AJK »
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Offline shiframeir

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Re: Law School
« Reply #162 on: December 18, 2013, 11:11:56 AM »
Ha, i hear u AJK, but i dont think we have that stellar reputation everywhere, i know at least a few frum peeps who tried to game the system and work as little as possible, and prejudice is very easy.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Law School
« Reply #163 on: December 18, 2013, 11:14:32 AM »
Ha, i hear u AJK, but i dont think we have that stellar reputation everywhere, i know at least a few frum peeps who tried to game the system and work as little as possible, and prejudice is very easy.
at least you seem to be affected.:P

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Law School
« Reply #164 on: December 18, 2013, 11:25:45 AM »
I personally wear a yarmulke, am at a big NY law firm, and can tell you that yes, it means all those things (less availability, food requirements, etc), but it also means a guaranteed hard worker (to make up for the lost time, I come in Sundays, etc), a person who has dealt with not one curriculum for his entire life, but two (twice as much as most other candidates), and though not without exception: an honest person with integrity, a character trait that may or may not be inculcated as much if I were not a religious Jew*; etc.

I think recruiters know that, and I think that in some instances, a religious Jew actually has a better chance.

*I am, of course, not saying people who are not religious Jews cannot be honest, please don't interpret it that way.


Thanks for sharing your experience...
Only half joking, is the bolded quote above seen as a virtue in law?