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Law school exams for yeshiva guys 101, by henche
1. Read the story. 
2. Write down all the taynas that anyone might have, and what taynas the other guy might have back, and what the halacha probably is. 
3. Hit "submit"
4. Get a job.
5. Never see your family again!!!!!!!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/success-in-law-school.html
« Last edited by jj1000 on September 15, 2016, 08:19:54 AM »

Author Topic: Law School  (Read 202208 times)

Offline gubevo18

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2175 on: July 22, 2019, 09:57:34 AM »
Many firms in the 251-500 lawyer range pay market salaries. So the chance of getting a biglaw salary should be higher than 39%. Also keep in mind that not everyone in law school wants biglaw (government, public interest...), and those students are not taken out of the total number. So a student going in that wants biglaw, at Fordham, for example, has better than 39% odds.
as far as numbers are concerned 251 is already big law. Either way as was mentioned above yarmulke goers will have to be in the top 20%. I personally know of two people in the top third who did not get big law. And one in the top 15-20 who got during 3L. By no means is it an easy ride

Online David61

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2176 on: July 22, 2019, 10:56:30 AM »
There is no accepted debt-to-risk ratio that makes it reasonable. It depends on your own risk tolerance.

Yep. Like they say with investing "you can either eat well or sleep well!"

The discipline of behavioral finance suggests that the measure of risk is both personal (emotional tolerance for risk) and dependent on personal wealth. For example, while investing 200K for a 50/50 chance of immediately getting 600K in return, is statistically a good bet to take  (with an "expected" payoff of $300K).  However a person with a lot of assets can afford to make the investment/bet (and perhaps "should"), but the person with few assets can't (if it may cost them their house, relationships, family harmony, the peace of mind) and probably should not.

Also, the discipline of economics suggests that the marginal utility (pleasure) of incremental assets decline. (i.e. the improvement in quality of life of having a 6-bedroom home vs. a 5 bedroom home, is much smaller than the difference between having a 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom home). The same is true of income, the incremental pleasure derived from making $250K vs $150K, is relatively modest compared to the incremental pleasure derived from making $150K vs. $50K. Point being the "financial/mathematics return" may overstate the "utility of that return", when doing a cost vs. benefit analysis.


Online henche

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2177 on: July 22, 2019, 12:55:43 PM »

Also, the discipline of economics suggests that the marginal utility (pleasure) of incremental assets decline. (i.e. the improvement in quality of life of having a 6-bedroom home vs. a 5 bedroom home, is much smaller than the difference between having a 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom home). The same is true of income, the incremental pleasure derived from making $250K vs $150K, is relatively modest compared to the incremental pleasure derived from making $150K vs. $50K. Point being the "financial/mathematics return" may overstate the "utility of that return", when doing a cost vs. benefit analysis.

I don't believe this one. It's obvious that the curve is neither a straight horizontal line nor a straight sloping line. But it's not at all obvious where it curves. 

Online David61

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2178 on: July 22, 2019, 01:06:02 PM »
You are correct. It's not linear its curved, (curving along the whole line, i.e. slope keeps changing). As always economic models are understood to be simplifications of a world that is more complex.

You can Google "law of diminishing marginal utility" for more info.

Online henche

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2179 on: July 22, 2019, 04:00:06 PM »
You are correct. It's not linear its curved, (curving along the whole line, i.e. slope keeps changing). As always economic models are understood to be simplifications of a world that is more complex.

You can Google "law of diminishing marginal utility" for more info.

Yes, this is the underpinning of all tax academia, that redistributing wealth is economically beneficial because of the declining marginal utility of money.

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2180 on: July 23, 2019, 09:09:09 AM »
Yep. Like they say with investing "you can either eat well or sleep well!"

The discipline of behavioral finance suggests that the measure of risk is both personal (emotional tolerance for risk) and dependent on personal wealth. For example, while investing 200K for a 50/50 chance of immediately getting 600K in return, is statistically a good bet to take  (with an "expected" payoff of $300K).  However a person with a lot of assets can afford to make the investment/bet (and perhaps "should"), but the person with few assets can't (if it may cost them their house, relationships, family harmony, the peace of mind) and probably should not.

Also, the discipline of economics suggests that the marginal utility (pleasure) of incremental assets decline. (i.e. the improvement in quality of life of having a 6-bedroom home vs. a 5 bedroom home, is much smaller than the difference between having a 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom home). The same is true of income, the incremental pleasure derived from making $250K vs $150K, is relatively modest compared to the incremental pleasure derived from making $150K vs. $50K. Point being the "financial/mathematics return" may overstate the "utility of that return", when doing a cost vs. benefit analysis.

Im not sure if Utility theory is applicable here as we are discussing income required to raise a Frum family, so the difference could be between being able to marry off children and pay tuition, not just how big your house is.

Online henche

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2181 on: July 23, 2019, 09:36:31 AM »
I went to law school, borrowed the bucks, been working for just about 6 years, and don't regret it. 

But, I'm still skeptical anytime anyone else goes to law school.  And it has to do with what is your next best option.  For me, there was pretty much no decent next best option, but if you're already been working in business for a couple of years, or if you have relationships that could get you into a job that has some growth potential, the analysis changes dramatically.

Most biglaw lawyers are out of biglaw by the time they have finished paying down their debt, so one way to look at it is that they slaved away at a high pressure high hours job to pay the cost of law school, and their real career starts at that point.  But they jobs they walk into are often no better than they could have been at if they had just taken the other opportunities originally instead of law school.

Many accountants come to law school, because they realize that they are working half the year just as bad or worse than the lawyers, for 1/3 they pay.  But if they'd just stuck it out another 6 years, I think they would get a better exit than if they went to law school for 3 years, then worked as a junior associate for three years. 


Online shiframeir

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2182 on: July 23, 2019, 05:38:17 PM »
I went to law school, borrowed the bucks, been working for just about 6 years, and don't regret it. 

But, I'm still skeptical anytime anyone else goes to law school.  And it has to do with what is your next best option.  For me, there was pretty much no decent next best option, but if you're already been working in business for a couple of years, or if you have relationships that could get you into a job that has some growth potential, the analysis changes dramatically.
Amen, did the same (more than 10 years and partner now, but still paying those loans). i look around at my friends and colleagues and while in retrospect it worked for me, it didn't for many i know.

Offline gubevo18

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2183 on: July 24, 2019, 07:35:37 AM »
Amen, did the same (more than 10 years and partner now, but still paying those loans). i look around at my friends and colleagues and while in retrospect it worked for me, it didn't for many i know.
When you say it didn't work what do you mean? They didn't make partner or they got screwd on their debt. Big difference

Online Ephcc90

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2184 on: July 24, 2019, 08:48:12 AM »
I went to law school, borrowed the bucks, been working for just about 6 years, and don't regret it. 

But, I'm still skeptical anytime anyone else goes to law school.  And it has to do with what is your next best option.  For me, there was pretty much no decent next best option, but if you're already been working in business for a couple of years, or if you have relationships that could get you into a job that has some growth potential, the analysis changes dramatically.

Most biglaw lawyers are out of biglaw by the time they have finished paying down their debt, so one way to look at it is that they slaved away at a high pressure high hours job to pay the cost of law school, and their real career starts at that point.  But they jobs they walk into are often no better than they could have been at if they had just taken the other opportunities originally instead of law school.

Many accountants come to law school, because they realize that they are working half the year just as bad or worse than the lawyers, for 1/3 they pay.  But if they'd just stuck it out another 6 years, I think they would get a better exit than if they went to law school for 3 years, then worked as a junior associate for three years.
Just @ me next time. Sheesh

Online shiframeir

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2185 on: July 25, 2019, 02:18:31 PM »
When you say it didn't work what do you mean? They didn't make partner or they got screwd on their debt. Big difference
they either didnt get a biglaw job (and wanted one) or did but got laid off within a year or so. some already had connections to use, some as a continuing lawyer and some more business focused (and some went to business school).

Offline Cls2020

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2186 on: March 22, 2020, 08:55:07 PM »
Does anyone have any info regarding what firms are thinking about incoming associates/summers?

I understand that this may be too early for that, but still curious.

Thanks!

Offline good sam

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2187 on: March 22, 2020, 09:24:36 PM »
Does anyone have any info regarding what firms are thinking about incoming associates/summers?

I understand that this may be too early for that, but still curious.

Thanks!
I would be more worried about incoming than summers.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Online henche

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2188 on: March 23, 2020, 07:28:22 AM »
Im sure nobody is thinking about the incoming class yet. My guess is that if were still wfh, that many firms would defer their class until they can start in the office.

As for summers, there will of course be hiring, but perhaps reduced classes to the huge classes weve been seeing the past few years.

What about the 2020 summers who were supposed to summer in May?

Offline Cls2020

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Re: Law School
« Reply #2189 on: March 23, 2020, 12:46:12 PM »
Im sure nobody is thinking about the incoming class yet. My guess is that if were still wfh, that many firms would defer their class until they can start in the office.

As for summers, there will of course be hiring, but perhaps reduced classes to the huge classes weve been seeing the past few years.

What about the 2020 summers who were supposed to summer in May?
A few people I know who are summering this year have heard from their firms that they are still intending on having the summer program, fwiw.