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Law school exams for yeshiva guys 101, by henche
1. Read the story. 
2. Write down all the taynas that anyone might have, and what taynas the other guy might have back, and what the halacha probably is. 
3. Hit "submit"
4. Get a job.
5. Never see your family again!!!!!!!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/success-in-law-school.html
« Last edited by jj1000 on September 15, 2016, 08:19:54 AM »

Author Topic: Law School  (Read 242198 times)

Offline Ergel

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Re: Re: Law School
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2012, 08:22:08 PM »
T14. As always there are exceptions to the rule
Rarely
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline yid

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Re: Law School
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2012, 08:52:16 PM »
1 doesn't make sense, IMO - what good is the study if it doesn't a) only in NY, and b) doesn't indicate so?

2 I largely agree... My advice is, and has been, if you don't a) get into a t-14 school, and/or b) get a full scholarship, stay away from law school.
+1

Offline yaakov s

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Re: Re: Law School
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2012, 11:12:44 PM »
Rarely
that's why it's called an exception  ;)

Offline AJK

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Re: Law School
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2012, 09:39:57 AM »
what's better a T14 or full ride at say Fordham?

I'd say it depends on a) which t-14, and b) where you want to practice.

Example: if you get into Duke (with no scholarship), and Fordham with a full ride, and want to practice in NYC, that's a pretty tough question.

If it's t-5 or 6, take it and run.
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Offline michael

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Re: Law School
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2012, 10:22:56 AM »
Besides, Fordham officially does not give out full rides. Unless it's changed recently.

Several of my friends were offered more money at higher ranked schools as compared to Fordham's offer.

Offline eliteflyer

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Re: Law School
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2012, 11:18:04 AM »
I would also add that although your chances of landing big-law at the top ranked schools are far better than at lower tiered schools, it is still a hustle to land the job.

I know several classmates at Columbia who struck out at the 2L EIP/On Campus Interview Program for summer associate positions. This is usually the only window of opportunity to get into big law, as interviews for 3Ls are far more limited.

Moreover, although I did not personally have such an experience, many with "heimishe" undergraduate degrees such as Talmudic Studies, Religious Studies etc. have told me that they found that their interview experience was unsuccessful.

That being said, looking for a job out of Columbia as a 3L seems to be a far more promising process than at other schools. I just want people to understand that you can not expect to walk into big law by default just by attending Columbia or similar schools.

Offline AJK

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Re: Law School
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2012, 11:22:56 AM »
+1, and that is especially true in this economy
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Offline yaakov s

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Re: Law School
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2012, 11:50:42 AM »
I would also add that although your chances of landing big-law at the top ranked schools are far better than at lower tiered schools, it is still a hustle to land the job.

I know several classmates at Columbia who struck out at the 2L EIP/On Campus Interview Program for summer associate positions. This is usually the only window of opportunity to get into big law, as interviews for 3Ls are far more limited.

Moreover, although I did not personally have such an experience, many with "heimishe" undergraduate degrees such as Talmudic Studies, Religious Studies etc. have told me that they found that their interview experience was unsuccessful.

That being said, looking for a job out of Columbia as a 3L seems to be a far more promising process than at other schools. I just want people to understand that you can not expect to walk into big law by default just by attending Columbia or similar schools.
Could be more the personality then the degree. Often , these people while smart , don't have the same command of the language skills and social interaction know how , compared to  someone who lived it for many years

Offline jj1000

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Re: Law School
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2012, 11:56:03 AM »
Could be more the personality then the degree. Often , these people while smart , don't have the same command of the language skills and social interaction know how , compared to  someone who lived it for many years
Interesting. Although I'd venture to say Chabad guys have an edge because of mivtzoim and being used to striking up a conversation with a stranger who is often a successful professional...
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Offline eliteflyer

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Re: Law School
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2012, 11:58:14 AM »
Could be more the personality then the degree. Often , these people while smart , don't have the same command of the language skills and social interaction know how , compared to  someone who lived it for many years
Many law students are coming straight out of undergrad with no work experience, and are equally if not more socially awkward as their yeshiva educated peers.

Offline NECjak15

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Re: Law School
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2012, 12:25:44 PM »
I'd say it depends on a) which t-14, and b) where you want to practice.

Example: if you get into Duke (with no scholarship), and Fordham with a full ride, and want to practice in NYC, that's a pretty tough question.

If it's t-5 or 6, take it and run.

T-14 is almost necessary if you want federal clerkship. Very little chance out of Fordham, unless your top 10% (even that, there's a remote chance)

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Re: Law School
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2012, 12:29:26 PM »
1) Not everyone wants to clerk, and 2) it isn't necessary :P
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Offline Jay the PRESIDENT

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Re: Law School
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2012, 02:21:50 AM »
-many of the comments regarding how hard iti is to land a law job are relevant to many professions in this economy. law is singled bec making big law makes it a lot bigger than other professions

-why would law school be worth it for a free ride if the job market is so bad?

-law school applications are down signifcantly, and many schools raised there scholarships- fordham max is now 30k i beleive

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Re: Law School
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2012, 08:59:13 AM »
-many of the comments regarding how hard iti is to land a law job are relevant to many professions in this economy. law is singled bec making big law makes it a lot bigger than other professions

-why would law school be worth it for a free ride if the job market is so bad?

-law school applications are down signifcantly, and many schools raised there scholarships- fordham max is now 30k i beleive

That one is kinda self explanatory: less risk.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Law School
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2013, 11:21:49 PM »
Anyone considering law school should look at these rankings from Above the Law


 Another good read http://abovethelaw.com/2012/02/best-law-schools-for-getting-a-biglaw-job-2012/

Focusing on best law school for jobs in the top 250 firms.



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Offline eliteflyer

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Re: Law School
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2013, 06:15:19 PM »

Focusing on best law school for jobs in the top 250 firms.



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Keep in mind that this chart fails to account for students who graduate school and enter directly into a clerkship with a federal judge or state court of last resort. These students, who require superior credentials to obtain a clerkship, often have standing offers to join top firms at the conclusion of their 2 or 3 year clerkship. Thus, for example it would be  misleading to conclude from the numbers in this chart that a Harvard graduate would not fair as well in finding a placement at one of the NLJ 250.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Law School
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2013, 06:24:21 PM »
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=other&show=jobs
Quote from: eliteflyer link=topic=14083.msg409210#msg409210 date=1http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=other&show=jobs360106119
Keep in mind that this chart fails to account for students who graduate school and enter directly into a clerkship with a federal judge or state court of last resort. These students, who require superior credentials to obtain a clerkship, often have standing offers to join top firms at the conclusion of their 2 or 3 year clerkship. Thus, for example it would be  misleading to conclude from the numbers in this chart that a Harvard graduate would not fair as well in finding a placement at one of the NLJ 250.
Of course. The author of the article I linked to mentioned that

" Many top law schools, such as Yale and Harvard, send sizable numbers of their graduates straight into clerkships. These clerks often wind up at NLJ 250 firms after their clerkships, but they aren’t counted as hits for purposes of this list. So the schools that top this list are often those that land in the “sweet spot” between (1) having enough juice to get their grads Biglaw jobs and (2) not having too many grads go off and clerk. In other words, think of it as a list of law schools that excel at sending their graduates straight into Biglaw, without detour."

Here you can see what percentage of each class goes to federal jobs http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=other&show=jobs
Click on the federal tab to show the highest ranked in that category.

Also lacking from both these reports is where in the top 250 do the students get jobs. Penn graduates might go to the top 150-250 firms while Harvard/Yale/Columbia graduates go to the top 1-100 firms.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 06:30:39 PM by jj1000 »
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Re: Law School
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2013, 10:01:49 AM »
Folks, I'm a lawyer, with my own practice for about 13 years.  My ear is not that close to the ground, but from what I understand, law is more saturated than other professions, costs in excess of $100k to earn, and for even those in the top of the class, a job is not a sure thing.  This past summer a major law firm went bust (may have been earlier).   A Harvard grad had a job there, but it obviously disappeared.  This Harvard grad was unable to find another job.  At all.  Granted, it was late in the game, as Big Law fills its slots in the Winter and Spring, but that is pretty unusual.  A big part of the overall problem was the schools, who promised the moon knowing they couldn't deliver.  It was only recently that their bluff was called and now their collective pants are around their ankles.  I remember being a 1L, and drooling over the first year salaries, then around $125k, that "everyone" got.  Aside from a few, it was fantasy.  But the schools did little to disabuse us of that approach..

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Re: Law School
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2013, 10:04:46 AM »
what's better a T14 or full ride at say Fordham?

I disagree with some others.  Today, you must manage risk.  I would go to Fordham and score in the top 10%.

Offline henche

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Re: Law School
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2013, 12:47:06 PM »
I disagree with some others.  Today, you must manage risk.  I would go to Fordham and score in the top 10%.

Why in the top 10%? Why not just be valedictorian while you're at it.

You know everyone who enters intends to be in the top 10%, but only 1 in 10 are.