Author Topic: Law School (Read 406166 times)

michael · « **Reply #320 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:02:41 PM »

Slightly OT - I didn't shave this chol hamoed and got two comments from non-yarmulka wearing attorneys at my firm. Not negative comments, but I plan on speaking to my rov regarding next chol hamoed. Biglaw.

Freddie · « **Reply #321 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:07:09 PM »

Quote from: michael on April 21, 2015, 03:02:41 PM

Slightly OT - I didn't shave this chol hamoed and got two comments from non-yarmulka wearing attorneys at my firm. Not negative comments, but I plan on speaking to my rov regarding next chol hamoed. Biglaw.

That means non-yarmulka wearing frum Jewish attorneys, yes?

jj1000 · « **Reply #322 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:09:22 PM »

Quote from: michael on April 21, 2015, 03:02:41 PM

Slightly OT - I didn't shave this chol hamoed and got two comments from non-yarmulka wearing attorneys at my firm. Not negative comments, but I plan on speaking to my rov regarding next chol hamoed. Biglaw.

Your asking if you shouldn't shave at all? It is the obvious solution, you wouldn't get any comments next chol hamoed...

HT: Freddie

mercaz1 · « **Reply #323 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:14:03 PM »

i think lawyers are the one of the last professions in america that it is very common for frum jews to not wear yarmulkes

Aaaron · « **Reply #324 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:18:35 PM »

Quote from: CS91 on April 21, 2015, 02:49:09 PM

The market has bounced back compared to how it was in '08 and '09. But to say that "it's not difficult to find a decent job without decent grades" is super inaccurate. I know people at T-14 schools with middle of the pack grades who don't have jobs. As for networking, a good connection can get you a callback, but to actually get an offer, you gotta do it mostly on your own.

Maybe your market is over-saturated. As I mentioned earlier, I went to MD (which was in the 30s or 40s at the time), and 99% of my class was employed within 6 months. I know my entire friend-circle of ~30 was, and we didn't have phenomenal grades. Personality is a huge draw as well.

shiframeir · « **Reply #325 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:21:47 PM »

Quote from: CS91 on April 21, 2015, 02:49:09 PM

The market has bounced back compared to how it was in '08 and '09. But to say that "it's not difficult to find a decent job with decent grades" is super inaccurate. I know people at T-14 schools with middle of the pack grades who don't have jobs. As for networking, a good connection can get you a callback, but to actually get an offer, you gotta do it mostly on your own.

+ 180

Quote from: Aaaron on April 21, 2015, 02:34:01 PM

That is one of the most ridiculous things I've read. Why are you only focusing on biglaw? The market has bounced back over the past few years and it's not difficult to find a decent job with decent grades and a good personality. Networking is almost as important as grades.

Biglaw is where you make enough money to pay back a $150k/200k nut (with interest). I'm sure there are some people who have their parents pay for school, and some people who become personal injury lawyers who get a big case and settle for a big sum, but in general if you are below biglaw you are making about 70-90k max out of law school (with plenty stuck at the same $40k annual they could have gotten as an accountant), which after taxes and if you have kids etc is a rough burden. As i said, if you have a scholarship or are rich anyway, your considerations may be different.

Quote from: Aaaron on April 21, 2015, 03:18:35 PM

Maybe your market is over-saturated. As I mentioned earlier, I went to MD (which was in the 30s or 40s at the time), and 99% of my class was employed within 6 months. I know my entire friend-circle of ~30 was, and we didn't have phenomenal grades. Personality is a huge draw as well.

NY is oversaturated, and that is where the OP was originally considering. just to pry, what was your total debt after u graduated, and what was your incoming annual salary?

CS91 · « **Reply #326 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:31:58 PM »

Quote from: Aaaron on April 21, 2015, 03:18:35 PM

Maybe your market is over-saturated. As I mentioned earlier, I went to MD (which was in the 30s or 40s at the time), and 99% of my class was employed within 6 months. I know my entire friend-circle of ~30 was, and we didn't have phenomenal grades. Personality is a huge draw as well.

When did you graduate? And anyone that has gone to law school knows that "99% employed" is an extremely misleading statement. Some law schools include non-law jobs in that stat, and all schools include low-level clerkships and law jobs that pay 50k (and almost none of us went to law school with the intention of working at these types of jobs) in that stat.

mb1 · « **Reply #327 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:39:09 PM »

Maybe it's time to merge this with the other law school thread.

PlatinumGuy · « **Reply #328 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:42:57 PM »

Quote from: AsherO on April 21, 2015, 01:31:18 PM

I can't see how removing your Yarmulkah is part of required hishtadlus...

The logic is simple - assuming it will increase your likelihood of earning money - which is objectively true in a place like Saudi Arabia, it becomes required hishtadlus unless considered assur/inappropriate.

PlatinumGuy · « **Reply #329 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:44:47 PM »

Quote from: shiframeir on April 21, 2015, 02:25:02 PM

PlatinumGuy, u are the man.

Thanks, big compliment coming from you

henche · « **Reply #330 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:52:10 PM »

I didn't shave this chol hamoed. I worked the first 2 days from home, and the last 2 days from the firm's offices in a different city.

Aaaron · « **Reply #331 on:** April 21, 2015, 04:10:58 PM »

Quote from: shiframeir on April 21, 2015, 03:21:47 PM

NY is oversaturated, and that is where the OP was originally considering. just to pry, what was your total debt after u graduated, and what was your incoming annual salary?

I was fortunate to have no debt (parents, not scholarship). But my tuition was under 100k anyway (state school). And suffice it to say, I did very well my first year out (graduated in 2012), but I got very lucky and I acknowledge it's not the norm. IMO, working during school to actually learn the legal profession is one of the most important things a law student can do.

Aj3042 · « **Reply #332 on:** April 21, 2015, 04:12:04 PM »

Quote from: Aaaron on April 21, 2015, 02:35:04 PM

I don't think you see the irony in your post.

You're thinking correctly because I indeed don't.

Aaaron · « **Reply #333 on:** April 21, 2015, 04:12:15 PM »

Quote from: CS91 on April 21, 2015, 03:31:58 PM

When did you graduate? And anyone that has gone to law school knows that "99% employed" is an extremely misleading statement. Some law schools include non-law jobs in that stat, and all schools include low-level clerkships and law jobs that pay 50k (and almost none of us went to law school with the intention of working at these types of jobs) in that stat.

That's why I qualified my statement with the experience of my friends. All gainfully employed with full time legal jobs. However, there are only two schools in the state so a much better market.

shiframeir · « **Reply #334 on:** April 21, 2015, 05:11:59 PM »

Quote from: Aaaron on April 21, 2015, 04:10:58 PM

I was fortunate to have no debt (parents, not scholarship). But my tuition was under 100k anyway (state school). And suffice it to say, I did very well my first year out (graduated in 2012), but I got very lucky and I acknowledge it's not the norm. IMO, working during school to actually learn the legal profession is one of the most important things a law student can do.

Thx for your honesty. you are very lucky (as was i BH and some other people I know). but there are plenty of people i know (jewish and not-jewish) who will always regret going to law school. so i waste my time to always try to make people (especially those considering going to a non-top-tier school in NY) think twice.

Aaaron · « **Reply #335 on:** April 21, 2015, 05:41:38 PM »

Quote from: shiframeir on April 21, 2015, 05:11:59 PM

Thx for your honesty. you are very lucky (as was i BH and some other people I know). but there are plenty of people i know (jewish and not-jewish) who will always regret going to law school. so i waste my time to always try to make people (especially those considering going to a non-top-tier school in NY) think twice.

And that is fine. I would advise someone against going to law school as well if they aspire solely to being a big firm attorney and can't get into a top school. However, a law degree is one of the most universal masters out there, and I benefited tremendously from the experience, and I think others can too. As long as they don't feel they need to be the next Harvey Specter.

good sam · « **Reply #336 on:** April 21, 2015, 06:40:01 PM »

Quote from: shiframeir on April 21, 2015, 02:25:02 PM

ha, actually had an awesome childhood BH
and i happen to always wear my yarmulke,

Shifra, you wear a yarlmuka???

good sam · « **Reply #337 on:** April 21, 2015, 06:41:51 PM »

Quote from: Aj3042 on April 21, 2015, 12:58:14 AM

It's indoors, they feel it's necessary for parnassah (definitely can't make a brachah/eat or drink though). IIRC there's a tshuva from Rav Moshe about it.

I saw an alarming number of people not wearing yarlmukas all day on interview days, eating, drinking, and I assume making brachos. Always wondered if they had a psak or just didn't care either way.

henche · « **Reply #338 on:** April 21, 2015, 07:27:48 PM »

Quote from: Aaaron on April 21, 2015, 05:41:38 PM

And that is fine. I would advise someone against going to law school as well if they aspire solely to being a big firm attorney and can't get into a top school. However, a law degree is one of the most universal masters out there, and I benefited tremendously from the experience, and I think others can too. As long as they don't feel they need to be the next Harvey Specter.

harvey spector isn't real. I'm the first, not the next

good sam · « **Reply #339 on:** April 21, 2015, 07:55:30 PM »

Quote from: Aaaron on April 21, 2015, 05:41:38 PM

And that is fine. I would advise someone against going to law school as well if they aspire solely to being a big firm attorney and can't get into a top school. However, a law degree is one of the most universal masters out there, and I benefited tremendously from the experience, and I think others can too. As long as they don't feel they need to be the next Harvey Specter.

Masters? It's a doctorate. Don't insult our profession.

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Author Topic: Law School (Read 406166 times)