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Law school exams for yeshiva guys 101, by henche
1. Read the story. 
2. Write down all the taynas that anyone might have, and what taynas the other guy might have back, and what the halacha probably is. 
3. Hit "submit"
4. Get a job.
5. Never see your family again!!!!!!!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/success-in-law-school.html
« Last edited by jj1000 on September 15, 2016, 08:19:54 AM »

Author Topic: Law School  (Read 398257 times)

Offline thaber

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #640 on: May 06, 2015, 07:09:11 PM »
Don't forget Shabbos.
What about sleeping with the male recruiter?

Offline zale

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #641 on: May 06, 2015, 07:09:16 PM »
+1000
I actually heard the following from a friend of mine (he heard it from his friend who asked R' Elyashiv):
He posed the question like this- Every year on R'H its determined how much money a person will make in the upcoming year. If i wear my yarmulka to a business meeting and i lose the deal (solely because i was wearing my yarmulka), did i just lose money that i was supposed to make? The answer was yes! 
In other words, had i not worn my yarmulka, i would have gotten the deal and earned the money i was destined to earn. The money i lost may was destined for me on R'H, but i lost it by wearing my yarmulka and therefore will not make as much as hashem planned for me for the year.

Is this satire?

A friend who heard it from a friend?

I heard from a friend who heard from his Shvigger's cousin that rabbi Shmueli Boteach was matir sleeping with the recruiter in cases of Hefsed Meruba.

Offline thaber

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #642 on: May 06, 2015, 07:10:00 PM »
Is this satire?

A friend who heard it from a friend?

I heard from a friend who heard from his Shvigger's cousin that rabbi Shmueli Boteach was matir sleeping with the recruiter in cases of Hefsed Meruba.
What about sleeping with the male recruiter?

Offline Freddie

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #643 on: May 06, 2015, 07:12:59 PM »
I was kidding. so was JJ. Noone thinks you should say that. the only thing that probably works to some extent is what my brother does, which is to tell people pre meeting in an email or through his secretary. It takes away the awkwardness to a large degree.
I'm not a lawyer, but I do deal with the professional world fairly often.

I always mention in an email or a phone call pre-meeting that I cannot shake. And I try to have a sense of humor about it. As long as nobody is Jewish, I never get any weird responses. Some of the more choshuver organizations I have dealt with are incredibly on top the ball and go out of the way not to put me in an awkward position. I was even choshesh by one place that they must have had a special sensitivity training seminar that morning before I arrived. (And this was a place with over a thousand people on staff..)

Offline Yordai Dooma

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #644 on: May 06, 2015, 07:14:07 PM »
Is this satire?

A friend who heard it from a friend?

I heard from a friend who heard from his Shvigger's cousin that rabbi Shmueli Boteach was matir sleeping with the recruiter in cases of Hefsed Meruba.
Did i really sound like i was joking??? I was merely trying to say that i didnt just "hear that R' Elyashiv once said...". I can trace it back to the person who asked the question.

Offline henche

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #645 on: May 06, 2015, 07:33:10 PM »
What's to understand? That's a very condescending attitude, especially since there are many in the 'professional business world' who don't shake.



Come again? Its condescending to say that those who haven't experienbced it can't understand?

I think we have a different definition of "condescending". This website really needs a definitions sectuion.

Offline yakrot

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #646 on: May 06, 2015, 07:33:52 PM »
Come again? Its condescending to say that those who haven't experienbced it can't understand?

I think we have a different definition of "condescending". This website really needs a definitions sectuion.
How about a spelling one

Offline Dan

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #647 on: May 06, 2015, 07:38:51 PM »
Don't forget Shabbos.
That's a big one, but 2nd day yom tov is a massive anti-keli.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline AJK

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #648 on: May 06, 2015, 07:59:43 PM »
Full disclosure: I wear at work, though I've often second-guessed my decision and would reevaluate if I were to switch jobs.

Until this point, however, I've long thought that wearing it was the "right" thing to do for two reasons:

1) If I did not get a job *on account of the fact* that I was very obviously an orthodox Jew, I probably did not want that job in any event. Not hiring me would only be the potential beginning of a critical and judgmental work environment, the likes of which would be difficult to handle day-to-day. ("Leaving early on Friday again, AJK?" or "Didn't you just take off two days last week, dude?")

2) My mother says, "you will never go wrong doing the right thing."  Employing that cute but otherwise insightful maxim, I came to the inexorable conclusion that if I had even the least bit of emunah, including that my parnassah is set on RH for the year, then it would be rather foolish of me to compromise my religious observance in the hopes that I could "outsmart the system."  If I were going to make X per year doing what I was supposed to do (which in this case would be wearing at work), then what would I stand to gain by taking it off? Well, certainly not more money. Instead, I'd only gain a boss who may otherwise make my life difficult (see point one).

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Offline JoeCha

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #649 on: May 06, 2015, 08:28:03 PM »
And banking.
Nah, this is the CEO of MasterCard:

"There is no such thing as bad whiskey. Some whiskeys just happen to be better than others" ― William Faulkner

Offline henche

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #650 on: May 06, 2015, 08:29:08 PM »
"Anti-keli"?  What's that mean? ChaimMoskowitz?

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #651 on: May 06, 2015, 08:35:50 PM »
Come again? Its condescending to say that those who haven't experienbced it can't understand?

I think we have a different definition of "condescending". This website really needs a definitions sectuion.
I don't think we have a different understanding of condescension, I think we interpreted lunatic's post differently - with mine being the incorrect interpretation as per lunatic:
I think you misunderstood. Not saying that it is or is not correct (through I personally do),  just saying that to understand the issue and the awkward situations,  you need to be part of the professional business world
I was reading his original comment as saying that if you're in the professional business world you understand why it's muttar, and that those that say you shouldn't do it must not be involved in the business world. I hope you'll agree that would have qualified for the 'condescending' label.

As far as lunatic's actual point, now that I understand it, I hear the point to an extent. But poskim have to pasken on situations they have no personal experience in all the time - they gather information as best they can and apply halacha to it. Halacha doesn't care that it's awkward.

Offline Yehuda25

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #652 on: May 06, 2015, 08:44:14 PM »
Full disclosure: I wear at work, though I've often second-guessed my decision and would reevaluate if I were to switch jobs.

Until this point, however, I've long thought that wearing it was the "right" thing to do for two reasons:

1) If I did not get a job *on account of the fact* that I was very obviously an orthodox Jew, I probably did not want that job in any event. Not hiring me would only be the potential beginning of a critical and judgmental work environment, the likes of which would be difficult to handle day-to-day. ("Leaving early on Friday again, AJK?" or "Didn't you just take off two days last week, dude?")

2) My mother says, "you will never go wrong doing the right thing."  Employing that cute but otherwise insightful maxim, I came to the inexorable conclusion that if I had even the least bit of emunah, including that my parnassah is set on RH for the year, then it would be rather foolish of me to compromise my religious observance in the hopes that I could "outsmart the system."  If I were going to make X per year doing what I was supposed to do (which in this case would be wearing at work), then what would I stand to gain by taking it off? Well, certainly not more money. Instead, I'd only gain a boss who may otherwise make my life difficult (see point one).
+1 as usual, well said.
“To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.”


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Offline JoeCha

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #653 on: May 06, 2015, 08:46:52 PM »
+1. I wasn't saying I personally follow the Chazon Ish. My whole point was that chillul Hashem is not the right words for this. There may be a 'don't make people uncomfortable' heter. but that's not chilul Hashem. Is it a chilul Hashem to wear your tzitzis out? not shave on chol hamoed? refuse to step in to a treife restaurant? there's heteirim for all of those, and by all means, seek out the tzad heter. I would if my job depended on it, or even if I just thought so. But it's wrong to term a machmir as a chilul Hashem
And what exactly is the problem with this?
"There is no such thing as bad whiskey. Some whiskeys just happen to be better than others" ― William Faulkner

Offline AJK

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #654 on: May 06, 2015, 09:01:17 PM »
And what exactly is the problem with this?

Even I've heard of maaras eiyin.
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Offline JoeCha

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #655 on: May 06, 2015, 09:04:20 PM »
if I had even the least bit of emunah, including that my parnassah is set on RH for the year, then it would be rather foolish of me to compromise my religious observance in the hopes that I could "outsmart the system."  If I were going to make X per year doing what I was supposed to do (which in this case would be wearing at work), then what would I stand to gain by taking it off? Well, certainly not more money.

According to the story ^ of R' Eliyashiv (assuming it's true), that cheshbon is not correct if you're ruining your chances with your own hands.
"There is no such thing as bad whiskey. Some whiskeys just happen to be better than others" ― William Faulkner

Offline JoeCha

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #656 on: May 06, 2015, 09:06:29 PM »
Even I've heard of maaras eiyin.
Is treife the only thing you can eat at a treife restaurant? I just order some fruits/veg. They always have something.
"There is no such thing as bad whiskey. Some whiskeys just happen to be better than others" ― William Faulkner

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #657 on: May 06, 2015, 09:07:42 PM »
That is why the argument can never be "what will others say". It depends only on what Halachah says, and if Halachah says something is wrong ייקוב הדין את ההר.

There's a reason the FIRST Seif in Shulchan Aruch says "לא יתבייש מפני בני אדם המלעיגים עליו"

גדול כבוד הבריות שדוחה לא תעשה שבתורה

Not so simple. We definitely break certain halachas when it creates extreme shame.

http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/kitveyet/shana/kvod-4.htm
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline thaber

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #658 on: May 06, 2015, 09:17:38 PM »
גדול כבוד הבריות שדוחה לא תעשה שבתורה

Not so simple. We definitely break certain halachas when it creates extreme shame.

http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/kitveyet/shana/kvod-4.htm
The most overused heter out there

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Moving for Law School?
« Reply #659 on: May 06, 2015, 09:17:58 PM »
2) My mother says, "you will never go wrong doing the right thing."  Employing that cute but otherwise insightful maxim, I came to the inexorable conclusion that if I had even the least bit of emunah, including that my parnassah is set on RH for the year, then it would be rather foolish of me to compromise my religious observance in the hopes that I could "outsmart the system."  If I were going to make X per year doing what I was supposed to do (which in this case would be wearing at work), then what would I stand to gain by taking it off? Well, certainly not more money. Instead, I'd only gain a boss who may otherwise make my life difficult (see point one).

That's a chicken & egg argument.

If taking it off is permitted, and taking it off would reasonably increase your probability of a higher income, keeping it on is losing out on money you're 'supposed' to earn.

If taking it off is prohibited, taking it off won't cause you to earn more.

Either way, the fact that the income is predetermined doesn't have any impact on the actual halacha, it merely makes it physcologically easier to obey.

For me personally and based on my rebbeim, there is a predetermined income from RH, but it may be better to give up on some of it in order to be closer to hashem. Nowhere does it say that מזונותיו של אדם קצובים לו means I won't earn less that God predetermined and it might be worth it. I thus (personally) have no issue losing 10-20% of my annual income over it but do take it off when I think an objective bystander would think it can have a bigger impact.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 09:21:03 PM by PlatinumGuy »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים